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Proving the existence of God
Posted On 12/02/2008 11:20:01 by AndrewCothran

If you asked me do i believe in God the honest answer is halfway ..which of course is like saying im a little pregnant ..Well..its a paradox for me ..i fear the judgement of God but at times i wonder does he exist ...does he really exist ,. not because i want to avoid judgement and therfore i try to talk myself out of believing but because the fact is im just not sure ..for me the question is certainty ..do you know that you know that you know ..can we ever have absolute certainty about anything in the physical world and if not how can we infer the existence of a creator with any real creedence in our own ability to make such an inference ..it gets quite complicated ..its like the more you dig the deeper the whole becomes with what ifs and propositions so much so that you cant see the light of the sun any longer ..

 

lately i have been combing over books and articles online laying out arguments and opinions about how we know God ..the knowability of God ..i see merit from different points of view ..

and i dont know whose right ...faith is not supposed to be a blind leap in the dark ..but faith is not always grounded in reason ..reason can only go so far ..i might infer that there is wisdom in the things that are made and i can clearly see that there is ..but if im not careful i might fail to distinquish The creator from the creature which will result in pantheisim ..if i take the classical arguments regarding cause and effect this creates a number of problems ..

one of which is the God you seem to prove is not the God of the bible and therfore isn't God .

God is not a first cause he according to scripture created the universe out of nothing so therfore there is no continium between himself and his creation and furthermore he did it from his own free will ..Cause indicates by neccesity ..Also lets suppose i did accept the cause argument atsome point i must take a leap of faith and say that the first cause created out of nothing which is something that cannot be logically deduced which destroys the foundationof the entire argument ,which is reason ...also the same argument can be used for atheisim ..

Every thing that exists has a cause , God is not caused so therefore God does not exist ..

the point is is that arguments are like guns the real issue is who is using them .

Im not sure God can be proven period ..Bon hoffer said that  a God that allows us  to prove his existence would be an idol .. i am inclined to agree ..



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Viewing 1 - 4 out of 4 Comments

From: Dr T
12/03/2008 00:07:31

Mr. Cothran,


 


I don't know if you are accurately tracking what I was saying in my reply sir.  Also for the record your comment on my page is not the same as you wrote below.  Anyway, where I said the error was, I listed it following that statment and showed the proper way to say that line.  If you reread it maybe it will make sense why that is more accurate that way.  I'm not trying to argue and straighten out your thinking on this so I'll just let you figure out where the errors are in your argument on your own.  One thing I will ask u for is this, "Can u please show me why God, being the creator, cannot be a cause?"  Thank you

From: Hemidakota
12/02/2008 14:29:21
I don't believe GOD is the owner of this universe. I do believe it for our own galaxy. As the universe is not infinite and does has a limitation to it. As there was a beginning and there is an end. As I do believe that GOD can talk, walk, with HIS children here upon the earth if we are obedient and follow HIS will.

From: AndrewCothran
12/02/2008 12:12:27

Dr T you took what i said out of context i am stating that the same argument can be turned around and used against theisim  .I was not affirming that it disproves God nor could I ..


God is not a cause ..God is creator there is a vast difference ..Besides using the same reason the arguments puts forth there is no such thing as an uncaused cause within the bounds of reason .That proposition is contrary to reason and the argument is supposed to be based on reason alone ..So the argument contradicts itself really ...Now an uncaused cause would be a matter of faith period ..So therfore we move beyond the bounds of reason if we are to assume such a postulate .But it still really proves nothing because in the end it comes down to a leap of faith when using this line of reasoning ..



From: Dr T
12/02/2008 11:32:39

Hi Andrew,


 


Fun topics of discussion.  You're right, we can only get so far and then we take a leap of faith.  At least that's where I've come down to.  I don't get why you hold that God is not the first Cause.  U have an error with this line "Every thing that exists has a cause, God is not caused so therefore God does not exist".  The proper way to say that is "Everything that has a beginning was caused."  To jump to "God is not caused so therefore God does not exist" is false.  You are correct, God was not caused but that does not mean He does not exist.  God is the uncaused cause, the prime mover, the only being that is not dependent on anything else.  He is unique in that He has always existed.  He is a being outside of time and space and created them.  Anyway, thanks for those fun thoughts. 



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