[Traveler]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Scientific theories are assumptions that change with evidence. A widely accepted idea can be revised or even thrown out all together depending on what is observed, as you pointed out with your dinosaur example. But I think that faith is entirely different than scientific theory and can't be compared. Are your religious beliefs really as easily changed as your scientific ones?

Yes, I think that your church does a lot of good and it's build on soundly moral concepts, which is why I'm investigating it in the first place. However, I've also experienced intolerance and bigotry from many religions, including yours. You can say that these people are not acting in accordance with all your churches teachings, but if you're going to look at the good that a church has inspired, you must also look at the bad that it has inspired whether it was intentional or not.

As an atheist moving to Utah, I've faced a bit of intolerance. Most people are polite on the surface, some genuinely mean it, but others immediately assume that I am an immoral heathen simply because I'm not a member and treat me with disdain. I've met a lot of jerks and immoral people and in my experience, what religion they claim to be has nothing to do with it. Judging someone entirely by their stated religion not only seems wrong to me, but seems to go against their own religious philosophy.

I would also like to state that all of those good things you mention don't require religion. I enjoy helping other people, I don't do it because I expect to be rewarded in the afterlife, I do it because it is the right thing to do. In my experience, the religious people who do the most good, don't do it for their religion or the perceived rewards, they do it because they are inherently good people and would have done it anyway.

I enjoy our conversation and I am sorry that I do not have more time to discuss the relationship of science and religion. Personally I see religion as a kind of science and I agree with you that the science of religion has been greatly abused and misunderstood. In the past I have posted that one of the great abuses of religion is the focus on self. I believe that this is very much a “ME” generation and time. Often we are encouraged to find a religion that fits with the “ME” agenda. Even salvation and being saved is defined by the gratification of the “ME” quest.

In science there is no “ME”. From my previous analogy of light and faith in a light coming on by operating the switch we learn that the light works for anyone operating the switch – regardless of their professed faith. The correspondence in religion is that those that seek shall find. In the LDS religion we ask people to pray concerning truth. I am not one that adheres to the “G-d answer by feeling” concept. Personally I like the concept of a journey. We do not drive car, waiting at the end of a street waiting for all the lights to turn green. We begin by driving to the first light. If the light is red we stop at the light and wait for the light to turn green. Each stage of our journey we take the first stage by studying maps, directions and our memory. Then we begin our journey. We look for indications (signs) as we travel to assist us. Sometimes we may even find the signs misleading. Sometimes we need to ask directions. Sometimes we just do the best we can and hope (have faith) it turns out.

I am not sure what you are looking for in your prayers. The idea that an angel will appear and explain things or that you will find a burning bush from which you will be told things is what I believe is doubtful. What I have found is that your thought process will evolve and you will have ideas and thoughts different to what you have had in the past. For example: while reading the Book of Mormon you will find inspiring thoughts giving enlightenment. Now you may think that you would have had the same thoughts had you not been reading the Book of Mormon. So keep a record or a journal and see if there is any difference.

In the meantime – I wish you well in your quest for truth. I do believe in such endeavors you will find many similarities with others (like myself) that are seeking. For me – I am not seeking heaven as a destination but as a means of travel.

The Traveler