[Yekcidmij]

Originally Posted by masterlee

Personally, I believe that these counsels were man made. God had nothing to do with it.

Why do you think that?

Also, why does the LDS church use the exact same OT and NT canons that protestants do? If the councils were apostate, it seems they managed to stop being apostate long enough in AD 393, 397, and 419 (68 - 94 years after Nicea) to compile the correct canon. Why not go back and add Enoch to the LDS canon if it's really inspired?

In the councils, we are told that God has no body, parts or passions.

Is that a quote from Nicea or is that from Aquinas?

They tell us that God is three beings but one as well.

That's not quite what it says.

I see this thread is swirling into a trinitarian/Nicea issue, even though Nicea didn't canonize scripture. That's cool.

I hold that the Godhead trio are one/united in power, purpose and likeness, but to say that they are both one and three is ridiculous. The number of inconsistencies is astonishing for a group that claims they have God's sanction. Perhaps the reason you Catholics do not hear from God has something to do with the fact you worship a god without a body, parts and passions--one that cannot speak for he only exists in your imagination.

Let's be honest, Nicea members weren't stupid, ignorant drunkards who spent the entire proceedings in a stupor. They probably knew of a few verses (leaving Divine names with proper transliteration):

Deut 4:16: I say this so you will not corrupt yourselves by making an image in the form of any kind of figure. This includes the likeness of a human male or female,

Deut 4:35 You have been taught that Jehovah alone is Elohim – there is no other besides him.

Deut 4:39 Today realize and carefully consider that Jehovah is Elohim in heaven above and on earth below – there is no other!

Deut 6:4 Listen, Israel: Jehovah is our Elohim, Jehovah is one!

I'm going to venture a guess that Nicea knew of these verses and others like these and knew they could either deny these verses, for whatever reason, or uphold all of scripture.

Deut 32:39 “See now that I, indeed I, am he!” says Jehovah,
“and there is no other Elohim besides me.
I kill and give life,
I smash and I heal,
and none can resist my power.

Jehovah says it's His power and no "elohim" besides Him. Has Jehovah just usurped Elohims power and taken Elohims worship? I think it's made abundantly clear to Moses on Mount Sinai:

Exodus 19:16 On the third day in the morning there was thunder and lightning and a dense cloud on the mountain, and the sound of a very loud horn; all the people who were in the camp trembled. 19:17 Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet Elohim, and they took their place at the foot of the mountain. 19:18 Now Mount Sinai was completely covered with smoke because Jehovah had descended on it in fire, and its smoke went up like the smoke of a great furnace, and the whole mountain shook violently. 19:19 When the sound of the horn grew louder and louder, Moses was speaking and Elohim was answering him with a voice.

Ok...so both Elohim and Jehovah are there on Mt. Sinai with Moses. Moses is speaking to Elohim and Elohim is speaking back. Unfortunately, or fortunately, Jehovah makes a bold move there on Sinai just a few verses later:

Exodus 20:2 “I, JEHOVAH, am your ELOHIM, who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
20:3 “You shall have no other ELOHIM before me.

Why doesn't Elohim object to this? Jehovah says HE is Elohim, then He forbids the worship of other Elohim. Why doesn't Heavenly Father object? Jehovah just forbid us to worship Heavenly Father! Elohim doesn't object because Jehovah is Elohim. He's not lying in Exodus 20:2 (or in Mosiah 12:33-37 where it's repeated word for word by Abinadi).

Nicea was probably aware of things like this (probably not the Abinadi quote though) and knew better than to posit more than one god. Jesus claims were pretty bold, yet it's clear that there is only One God. What do you do with the information found in the New and Old Testament and the Deuterocanon? Scripture is clear that there is one God, yet Jesus made some rather blasphemous remarks and actions, and was raised from the dead in spite of what should have been blasphemy and a free ticket strait to Sheol. What is a council to do with that?

God has revealed the information over many years, surely He left it such that we (or Nicea in this case) could apply the command to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind (Deut 6:5) and come to an understanding on what God has revealed about Himself. The answers are there in scripture. Rather than just say Nicea was a bunch of drunk, rowdy apostates (a genetic fallacy btw), why don't we check and see if their creed can actually be collaborated with what God has already revealed to us. I believe it can.

Now, having said that, and to try to get back on topic somewhat, Nicea still didn't compile the canon. The canon was finalized later by the Synod of Hippo (AD 393) and the Councils of Carthage (397 and 419). Were those 3 councils also drunken apostates? If they were apostate, why does the LDS OT and NT canon match the protestant rendition of it? Of course, if there wasn't a total apostasy by that point, and/or those 3 councils got it right, then maybe Nicea deserves a fresh look and another shot.