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Old 08-27-2008, 01:01 AM
ceeboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bytor2112 View Post
Hello again Ceeboo,

2 Thessolonians Ch. 2 verses 1-12

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, aby the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know awhat withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all apower and bsigns and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong elusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Timothy Ch.4 verses1-4

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Ephesians Ch 1 verse 10

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians Ch. 4 verses 11-14

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
bytor,

NOW THAT was a post ( elphaba like )

Very bias Interpretation would be my short reply.

I would readily agree that there are many warnings in the NT that caution us of a variety of things including your offerings. What I do not agree with is that those cautions had to do with the " Church " that Jesus built on the " rock of Peter " in which Jesus himself said would prevail over ALL.

If you believe it has not prevailed ( went into Great Apostasy ), you would have to say Jesus was wrong or was not telling the truth. Furthermore, if this apostasy took place, where is there historical support for such an enormous claim. Certainly you would be able to point to a year or atleast a decade or century for such a monumental event.

The warnings in scripture you suggest are IMHO no " Great Apostasy " at all, rather they are warnings of humans ( you and I ) who will and did stray from the original authentic teachings of Jesus himself because of mere man. They strayed in multiple ways not the least of which are greed, power, and corruption. These human ways ( sins and disobediences ) have nothing and still have nothing to do with the Church Jesus built .

Additionally, If your claim of the " Great apostasy " happened in the " early Church " and was not restored until 1800 or so, was happening during the 1500 years ( give or take a couple hundred) that the children of God lived and were proposed to be stranded by the very one who loves us beyond comprehension??

I would add ( for what it's worth ) that without including the events of the 1820's, JS, and BofM and ONLY CONSIDERING YOUR NT SCRIPTURE OFFERINGS, the suggestion of a prophesied " great apostasy " would be completly rejected by all Christians as well as Christian scholars.

God bless,
Carl

Last edited by ceeboo; 08-27-2008 at 01:04 AM.