Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanhin
Dear ceeboo,
Though evidence exists of a general falling away, as our biased sources and interpretations affirm, our knowledge of the Great Apostasy is a result of direct revelation. In otherwords, we do not believe that an apostasy occurred merely because of textual or historical evidence; we believe that an apostasy occured because God told us so.
When Joseph Smith went to the grove of trees to pray, his object was not to form a new religion, but to find out which of the many Christian religions he should join. In a glorious vision, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in answer to his prayer:
...When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” (Joseph Smith - History 1:17-19) We believe that an apostasy had occurred because God told us so. Simple as that. If He thinks it happened, then who has something that can counter that? What link can you send Him that will convince him that it did not?
The only question that really matters is: "Did the experience of Joseph Smith, that we call the First Vision, really happened or not?"
Regrards,
Vanhin |
Hello Vanhin,
I am aware of the account of the first vision ( JS )
To be clear, the discussion was about bytor's claim that the " Great Apostasy " was prophesied by NT scripture. Given only scripture, and not adding the 1820's, JS, or the BofM, I can see no support for such a monumental claim.
I will respectfuly pass on replying to JS's vision that includes the " abomination " ( sorry)
" Who has something to counter the vision "?? or " send me a link to convince me that it did not happen "??? How can I ( or anyone on the planet ) prove or counter a claim if the very claim under discussion is not subscribed to?????
" Did the first vision really happen or not " I would kindly an gently suggest that the answer to that question is most assuradly what makes you LDS and I catholic.
God bless,
Carl