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Originally Posted by ceeboo
Hello Vanhin,
I am aware of the account of the first vision ( JS )
To be clear, the discussion was about bytor's claim that the " Great Apostasy " was prophesied by NT scripture. Given only scripture, and not adding the 1820's, JS, or the BofM, I can see no support for such a monumental claim.
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That's fine. I'm just letting you know why we claim there was an apostasy. Any serious study of this belief of ours has to ultimately include a discussion about the First Vision, because that, above all other reasons, is why we believe it.
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I will respectfuly pass on replying to JS's vision that includes the " abomination " ( sorry)
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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you saying you don't wish to have a conversation about the First Vision because it has the word "abomination" in it? Why not?
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" Who has something to counter the vision "?? or " send me a link to convince me that it did not happen "??? How can I ( or anyone on the planet ) prove or counter a claim if the very claim under discussion is not subscribed to?????
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Exactly. That is why it all comes down to whether the First Vision really occurred or not. That's the question that must be answered. If you knew for sure that it did happen, wouldn't that change your opinion about whether you would subscribe to it or not?
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" Did the first vision really happen or not " I would kindly an gently suggest that the answer to that question is most assuradly what makes you LDS and I catholic.
God bless,
Carl
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Well no, that doesn't answer the question. I'll explain. The fact that I (LDS) believe it, does not make it true; and so the fact that you (Catholic) do not believe does not make it false. It either actually happened or it did not. The reality of that event is true or false, regardless of whether you or I choose to believe it or not. So, the actual answer to the question, "Did the First Vision really occur?" is paramount to all questions regarding the validity of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I'm not asking if you know the answer, I'm suggesting that the answer to that question is the most important to the authenticity of our religion. Do you agree?
Sincerely,
Vanhin