[Brenton]

In this thread, topic has got off-topic a little, a moderator suggest i bring up a new thread to keep topics in cohesion, so here goes.

This is a contention thread, and everyone gets to contend their own thoughts, and it'll probably get a little "heated".

Contention: Patriotism is a disgusting and vile thing, its deluded, and shows complete lack of being all-encompassing (and for some theyre actually "going against" their religion to be patriotic)

Anyway, the topic that all this began in, was about Chinese Olympians, but this topic has nothing to do with China, or olympians.

Don't apologize. America is the most prosperous nation on earth. It is ok to show pride in your country. Just because someone uses statistics from Babylon (United Nations) doesn't mean we aren't the most prosperous nation on earth. Just look at our history. Sure we have problems just like every country but over our 200+ year history it is quite evident where the worlds population wanted to reside.

This is the sort of deluded statement I'm talking about. Listen to your politicians people (but lets keep it neutral by not naming names or parties) .. and the constant brainwashing of "God Bless America, the Best and Most prosperous nation on earth"...

We Americans live in the most prosperous nation on the planet

It's beautiful that you believe that. But it's total rubbish. America has economic problems pretty much all the time. Theyre fighting wars for oil (i know thats just my opinion, but i had to throw it in), also if education isnt private or you arent gifted then youll likely strike trouble because its far from well funded, the US doesnt make tops either according the thew UNs Human Development Index (US comes in 12th) Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... so definetly not most prosperous.

Now if anyone wants to say I'm discussing politics, and thats against the rules, well then were going to have to stop statements like "america is the best thisandthat" because thats a political statement too.

The Human Development Index (HDI) is an index combining normalized measures of life expectancy, literacy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for countries worldwide. It is claimed as a standard means of measuring human development — a concept that, according to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), refers to the process of widening the options of persons, giving them greater opportunities for education, health care, income, employment, etc. The basic use of HDI is to rank countries by level of "human development", which usually also implies to determine whether a country is a developed, developing, or underdeveloped country.

This is not a slander america topic, but its to maybe try and get a few people to see that patriotism is inhumane and just outright crap. Okay?


"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism — how passionately I hate them!" - Albert Einstein

"There are two Americas. One is the America of Lincoln and Adlai Stevenson; the other is the America of Teddy Roosevelt and the modern superpatriots. One is generous and humane, the other narrowly egotistical; one is self-critical, the other self-righteous; one is sensible, the other romantic; one is good-humored, the other solemn; one is inquiring, the other pontificating; one is moderate, the other filled with passionate intensity; one is judicious and the other arrogant in the use of great power." J. William Fulbright, The Arrogance of Power (1966)

"Thinking men and women the world over are beginning to realize that patriotism is too narrow and limited a conception to meet the necessities of our time." Emma Goldman

"Conceit, arrogance, and egotism are the essentials of patriotism. [...] Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others." Emma Goldman, Patriotism: a menace to liberty

"We Americans claim to be a peace-loving people. We hate bloodshed; we are opposed to violence. Yet we go into spasms of joy over the possibility of projecting dynamite bombs from flying machines upon helpless citizens. We are ready to hang, electrocute, or lynch anyone, who, from economic necessity, will risk his own life in the attempt upon that of some industrial magnate. Yet our hearts swell with pride at the thought that America is becoming the most powerful nation on earth, and that she will eventually plant her iron foot on the necks of all other nations. Such is the logic of patriotism." Emma Goldman, What is Patriotism? (1908)

"I hate patriotism! It's a round world the last time I checked." Bill Hicks

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." George Bernard Shaw

"Patriotism ... for rulers is nothing else than a tool for achieving their power-hungry and money-hungry goals, and for the ruled it means renouncing their human dignity, reason, conscience, and slavish submission to those in power. ... Patriotism is slavery." Leo Tolstoy, in his pamphlet Christianity and Patriotism

EDIT;

Remeber: We are not all going to agree, thats an impossiblity, because we'd need to be perfect in the totally flawless definition, which is impossible.