[The_Seeker]

Originally Posted by deseretgov

The NoD already has land claimed. It includes Idaho, Utah, Eastern part of Nevada, A few southern counties of California, Arizona, western part of New Mexico, western part of Colorado, and the western part of Wyoming. The acqisition of this land would be accomplished through citizenship, dual control, and dominant control.

Citizenship means that anyone who becomes a citizen would allow their land to be claimed as part of the NoD.

Dual Control means that we would set up a parrallel system of control to the US one. For example a NoD version of the BLM would be set up.

Dominant Control means that when the NoD becomes accepted as the legitimate government of the territory then we would be accepted as legal authority of the claimed land.

These would probably happen in the order listed. Each has it's own problems and benefits.

I still don't see how this would work out well. Why do you think the US government is going to willingly surrender claim to part of it's own land, no matter how many of the inhabitants of it say they want to form a new nation? It didn't work for the Confederate States of America, what makes you think things would be different today?

It depends on what state the NoD is in. If they declare war on us right now they're wasting their time.

Yes, at this point there is not much reason for any country to declare war on the NoD. I wouldn't be surprised if your website is being monitored on a few watchlists, however.

If they declare war on us when we actually are making progress, then it just proves how anti-freedom the United States has become.

If we are full nation and they declare war on us then all peaceable means would be used to resolve the situation. If that methood fails. I would imagine that the people through elected representatives would be asked their input.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think your view of how things will turn out is overly optimistic. I think that if you continue on this course and your movement gains momentum, it will only be a matter of time until the US will try to crush you. Thus, war would be pretty much inevitable IMO. You said that you are not encouraging anyone to head to a compound in the mountains with plenty of guns and ammo, but isn't that what would be needed eventually if this effort is going to succeed? Personally I don't see any way around it.

Keep in mind that the NoD will not force it's laws on anyone who doesn't want it. Only those who want to be a citizen will be. In this way the NoD will be elected by the people. If the USA declares war on the NoD then they do not care about the freedom and sovreignity of it's citizens.

Looping back to the land issue: you said that at first the NoD will only claim land that is given it by it's citizens. Eventually you hope to gain enough critical mass so that you can claim an entire region. (Please correct me if I have this wrong.)

I would think that the first stage would net you a rather patchy claim to a bunch of land that may or may not be physically connected. If you do reach the next stage, wouldn't you be left with a scattered group of people who do not want to be part of your nation, who refuse to give up their land to the NoD or recognize it's sovereignty over them? What will you do with these people? Will they become refugees if they don't want to be citizens of Deseret?

No I don't feel like you are picking on it. These are very valid concerns. I hope I was able to give you some helpful answers.

I do appreciate your answers to my questions. I am certainly no expert on the topic of creating nations (far from it!), so perhaps there are things that I am missing that makes this idea seem feasible to you and the leaders of this organization. Personally, I can't see this effort turning out well if it gains strength.