Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB
Erik,
So which baptism is Eph 4:5 talking of when it says there is "one" baptism?
There is no textual problems in the text. (Well a very small issue at the end of verse 6)
"One body and one spirit, just as also you were called in one faith when you were called.
One lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and father to all, who [is] near all and through all and in all."
I can't think you'd want to affirm there is two of any of the others, so why decide on two baptisms?
Clearly the writers of Nicea saw one baptism which did both of what your two baptisms do.
I could you give a page of quotes from Tertullian, Justin Martyr, Augustine, Aquinas and Luther on the topic but I'll quote Zwingli himself....."In this matter of baptism all the doctors have been in error from the time of the apsotles."
So on what basis do you decide on two baptisms? You have IMHO scripture, creed and the full weight of church tradition for 1500 years against you.
If your asking what this has got to do with your original post, in part it is where I think the reformation got it wrong.
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Hey AnthonyB--
I appreciate your tenacity and recognize this is a core issue for you. Perhaps I would have done better to characterize spiritual baptism as regeneration (whether Zwingli would concur with this—I have no idea).
I look to my own experience when I became a Christian on the evening of June 1, 2005. At that moment in time, God gave me a new heart and a radically new direction. Had I died later that evening, I have no doubt I would have gone to be with Jesus. Yet I wasn't physically baptized until ~ 2 months later. They were separate, though certainly related events. (Obviously I'm ignoring my LDS baptism at age 8. My motivation back then was to please my parents and the other adults in the old Renton 4th Ward. I had no idea who Jesus really was or what He had accomplished for me.)
And when I look to Scripture, I see a distinction been the physical act of washing and regeneration by the Holy Spirit. (1 Peter 3:21, Mark 1:8; Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12). That is what I meant by spirtual baptism.
Rather than continue to discuss it here--my suggestion is that you open a thread on the subject of Baptism, and what it means to LDS and Christians alike (this is an LDS hosted forum, after all).
Regards,
--Erik