[Serg]

Serg,

Don't be sorry for the similarity. I was not saying it's not valuable I was just saying it is similar. Thinking about your analogy "because water freezes (at zero degrees) does that mean you cannot value it? What about snow skiing? Do you not like to ice skate? Build a snow man? Put ice cubes in your drink to cool it? Do you just say, "well this water freezing thing is useless because that is what it's supposed to do!" I don't think so. Apply that to God. Would you say, "Because that is your nature, I can't respect you."? That does not sound like a good argument to me. Please clarify if you'd like.

Thanks,

Dr. T
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LOL.
Here we go:
Dont misunderstand me. I am talking of God's MORAL quality, not His usefulness quality. Those are very afar from each other. I am stating, that while we justify the concept of punishment(by God) because we assert that we are responsible(morally)of such acts, we then establish that we could(in order to be significantly free) had been able to do otherwise(of what we actually, did). It follows, that those who here, practice virtue(or sanctity of conduct) are valued by both men and God, why? Because we know of the deal it involves in a person, that such would behave in a manner that is not so natural(as being truthful, condesendent, loyal, etc...)and we know such virtue is a result of self-effort(and assisting grace) and a very conflicting moral and psycological inner life. Indeed, it is very problematic to practice chastity(mentally contradictory) as you have natural impulses that are not within your "religious" calendar(you want to have sex long before marriage gets near you in ANY sense). Thus we say, wow, I admire that you do that. Thus God says, Behold, thou art righteouss, thou are a resemblance of Mine Only Begotten son, etc... because value comes from will, not otherwise.
When we consider then, God's moral quality(status-modus operandi, etc..), we find, that if He were BOUND by nature to act in a single way, then, He would not be even near human righteousness, for we indeed fight in ourselves to persevere, thats worthy. If we were bound(as we partly are) to be only evil, and we actually acted according this " nature", then God could not punish us, or admire in us our effort of virtue, but because we van do otherwise and choose not to, we preserve our worthiness. Thus happens to God. He cannot be bound by nature(as water) to be in a state(moral goodness-frozen ice), for then, it would have no value in terms of personality. Righteousness is not doing "good" alone, but CHOOSING to do so in face of opposites, the time you stop choosing, and start acting by default, you loose your freedom, or at least, what is worth of it.
If in preexistance we had free will, and chose good over evil(as yet do angels according to regular christian belief), then is not in which circumstances i encounter myself in what makes me more righteouss, but in what i WILL(to do) anywhere. Hence, Lucipher(being of light) chose evil over goodness, in the very presence of God!
Now God would certainly be more worthy that His creatures(or sons), and His righteousness would have to surpass anyone else's, thus He has to be even in more sublime terms, able to do otherwise(than good, i.e.evil) but choose not to, because being a Free Being, and good in nature(just as our good nature)(but He is not "goodness" itself, that does not exist), keeps existing in a single manner(hence His course is an 'eternal round"-not because He lives literally dgoing on a circle, LOL).
Now, you find water usefull, because of its nature, but you dont find it virtous, or righteous, or good(in a moral way), why? You may reffer in any case, to the "godness" of its USE, of its CREATOR, etc...but not to the water itself, why again? Because that water, did not choose to help you out in your thurst, but it was designed by nature to do so. Hence, it does not govern itself, why should we praise it? Do we praise our computer when we find in the internet what we are looking for? Why not?
Then, should we praise(or find, morally righteouss) a Being that is bound by nature(i.e.programed-not governing Itself,-planned-etc..) to be "good"? We then accept, even if roughly only, that He is able to do evil, but He doesnot do it, because He chooses not to, hence, He is our perfect example(as in Christ's), for if Christ could have not ever sinned, then He is no example to us, but to those of His kind(bound by nature to be goodness and merely endure suffering). If Christ did not have any freedom as to accept satan's offer in the desert to adore him, then 2:
a) Satan, knowing such a thing!, would have never even tried it!
B ) He would not be any example of morality,as we have to choose, and cant create in us a nature of infalliable goodness)
So we find the same conclusion, "Do you not like to ice skate? Build a snow man? Put ice cubes in your drink to cool it?" , of course i do, but particularly, as I am from the Tropic, i think I would find iceskating a bit difficult and rare(not funny), also i never made a snow man, and ultimatelly, what if9as vegetarians) i would preffer to drink water or juice without ice? These actuallities cannot be " applied to god" as you say, for they are cultural accidental things, while God's attributes must be treated as universally recognized and intelligiable to all.
Also "Do you just say, "well this water freezing thing is useless because that is what it's supposed to do!" I don't think so." , well, you can value its usefulness(again), but you dont thank water itself! Do you say "thank you water, for you have been so kind of helping me in my thurst" ? No, why? Ah....there you go friend. Also, "Because that is your nature, I can't respect you."? , hum, you run into even more serious difficulties, do you RESPECT water? Because it's nature SERVES you, do you OWE anything to water then? No, do you do any of these concerning it's(water's) Creator? Oh, yes, then we hit our jack pot.
But then again, when you finally recognize that you dont owe anything to water(nor respect for goodness), and you ultimatelly point towards heaven and say "there He is" " to Him I owe", then you tell me that He also is in the same position as water(for you believe that He also is bound by nature), so where do we point to? To whom do we point, that CHOSE to do and create all this GOODNESS(as in-usefulness in the world) for us, instead of just doing NOTHING at all? Was He(who ever it is) BOUND to create us? No. Just as He is not bound to do anything out of volition to His Will.

Lord, this is so edifying
Regards,