[Serg]

Hi serg,

You said,

…value comes from will, not otherwise.

Not true. There is value apart form will. Look at a child’s beauty. Do you place his/her value only on your will? Look at the arts, etc.

You imply that our value to God is dependant on “what we do.” Again, if we are children of God, does he not value us for our mere existence? Do you have children? If not, can’t you at least conceive of value in that child because of his/her birth not based on his/her mistakes or “good behavior?”

You ask why I “dont find it virtous, or righteous, or good(in a moral way), why? [sic]” because it is an inanimate object sir. It is a non-moral agent. You are grasping here.

We are on different pages because you have an underlying belief in your deity’s anthropomorphisms.

Water is needed for us to survive. Note Jesus’ parallel to being “living water.” Why do you think He made that comparison? As water sustains life…

Anyway, Serg. You are missing vital foundations in your post. You might want to re-read what you are trying to say and try again.

Thanks,

Dr. T
[/b]

I am not missing anything Dr. that's my point!
You say: Not true. There is value apart form will. Look at a child’s beauty. Do you place his/her value only on your will? Look at the arts, etc.
Fact: Beauty is a social construction, it is a communal "sense", it does not exist by itself, you dont find(what we call in phylosophy-universals) "beauty" alone in the universe, nor do you find truthfulness, or loyalty, those are characters and social constructions, we agree that what constitutes "beauty"(in THIS century) is a slim chick, with long hair(or short)etc... We agreed that "beauty"in God would have to "absort" us, indeed, we construct such universals, and they ONLY come(as VALUABLE) through one's(or any other's) WILL(mind, reason, thought). Thus, i child might be "beautiful" to you(cause you are there watching him!) but iof such a kid remained ALONE in the universe(or at least THIS world) he would NOT be beautiful, he would just be a kid, unless another WILL(mind) encounters itself with him and judges him(through the agreed social construction) as "beautiful".
You say:You imply that our value to God is dependant on “what we do.” Yes and no. He values us notwithstanding what we do "sir", for we are His sons, BUT, He values the righteouss heart ALSO, as an addition to that all natural-by default-love. Indeed Christ said "IF ye love me, keep my commandments", why would he say that? In fact, why do we have to keep His commandments? Why does have God to create such commandments for us? Ah, but also He mentioned LOVE, is not love the greatest meassure of value? What we value, we may say, we love(in a certain way) , moreover in God's case and His commandments, He LOVES us, and He says that the only way in which we can SHOW (or otherwise-truly DO) love Him, is while being obedient. So in fact, all the value we have(be it the parental-by default or the conduct one) comes ONLY from Will, for God, is WILL. If there were no Will(i.e.God), there would be no VALUE.
Value comes only through the inner concepts of a WILLING MIND, value does not exist by itself apart from Mind(Will). In fact, the only value(as in-useful-)you may find in water, is the fact that it "is needed for us to survive.", thus, if there would have been NO us to use it to survive, it would have no VALUE to you(for YOU are a Will!). We might mention that there are two sorts of values, intrinsic values, and extrinsic values. Water's value of sustaining us is an extrinsic one(external to it, not necessary to it for existing), while the nature of water(it's very-only-being) is intrinsic.
God's value then, cannot be only intrinsic(we cant just calue Him as we value water intrinsicly-because it only exists), but we have to value Him also extrinsicly(of How He interacts with other thiongs-beings), thus, his freedom.
Water's example is the most perfect one for this topic. You very sincerely admit :You ask why I “dont find it virtous, or righteous, or good(in a moral way), why? [sic]” because it is an inanimate object sir. It is a non-moral agent., and finally you get it! Hence, if God is not actually ABLE to will evil He deserves then no moral judgement(we may not say that He is GOOD), just as we dont consider water 'good".
And after all this you dare say You are grasping here. , Well, Dr., to that i can only say that you may as well ignore all this thread then.
Also:you have an underlying belief in your deity’s anthropomorphisms. Although I have nowhere mentioned or alluded here to any corporeal nature of God, of course i believe that. But a treatsie on God's moral agency only includes such aspects as it sees fit, it is not necessary nor has anything to do