Most Stress in 35 years of marriage...

[richlittell]

I agree with Rameumpton, the real issue here is not who is right or wrong (I think many here, having your side of the story, would see things much the same as you).

The real issue is resolution, and since there seems to be a stalemate, you must get a third party involved here, your Elder's Quorum President, a Relief Society sister, or more especially the Bishop. You both need to layout your cards before this (these) parties. It will help your wife if she sees other people understand your point of view, that it is just not you (and, of course, you might get an insight or two.)

good luck

[Heavenguard]

Kaaskop, your wife is doing exactly what my aunt is doing for my cousin. He's 26, and despite having worked full time for three years, has no money in the bank because he spends it all on his car, his girlfriend, and entertainment. When he went on vacation last month, he "borrowed" $3000 from his mom. (Borrowed is in quotes because I know he'll never give any of it back to her.) She pays his credit card bills. My aunt and your wife, are not doing their sons any favours, although they believe they are. My cousin and your son will never learn to be self-sufficient men men of responsibility and integrity with their mothers treating them as babies.

You must tell your wife that making your son responsible for himself is not hating him, but rather loving him, because you know that he can't live like that (off you and your wife) forever. A man that lacks responsibility and integrity will not make it in the working world. He may have a girlfriend now, but no good woman wants a man who won't take care of himself, because there's no security that he'll take care of her. If he doesn't learn to manage his money responsibly, he'll never be able to afford his own place. Does your wife expect him to live with you till he's 40? 50?

Your wife sees your son's "needs" now, but you need to tell her that she needs to look towards not only his, but your (the both of yours) futures as well. If he never learns to stand on his own, how are you going to continue to help support him after you retire? If anything, your son should be helping to support you, his parents, after you retire, but that part's just my opinion. It's not a realistic plan for you (or her) to continue to baby him, because it's just not sustainable.

[MorningStar]

It sounds like you are communicating just fine. Your wife, on the other hand, seems to be plugging her ears and yelling, "LALALALALALALALALALA!!!!" She's an enabler. It sounds like she would rather die than risk hurting your son's feelings or causing any negative emotions for him whatsoever. She probably fears him getting so upset, he won't want to talk to her again. And if he's threatening anything like that, he's being manipulative. This kind of thing happens with my husband's brother. You call him on his lousy behavior and he threatens to "leave the family". Most of us say, "Yeah, go ahead. It wouldn't last 5 minutes." Well, it terrifies his Mom and she starts begging everyone else to be nice to him.

This is what I would do. Maybe take your son for a nice drive/lunch far away from your wife and explain this stuff to him. Tell him, "I love you, but I think you know you haven't held up your end of the bargain and that your mom is too soft to do anything about it. I think you know that this situation isn't good for you. You are a smart man. What do you plan on doing about it? This is putting our marriage in jeopardy and you need to either start taking responsibility for your own finances or find another living situation that will work for you and the other party. Your mom and I aren't going to be around forever and the best thing for you is to sacrifice and do whatever you have to do to survive." Something like that. I know if it were my parents, my dad would put his foot down and not care how much my mom cried about it. That's ridiculous that your wife thinks that's a sign of you hating him. I would ask, "Why are you so afraid of expecting him to be a man?" Oh, and my answer to "When's dinner?" "When you're done fixing it, free-loader! That's when!"

At the least, I would nip the gaming situation in the bud. Is the computer in his room? I would say, "No job? No money? No games." If he didn't agree, I'd pack his bags. Either that or start shutting off the power to his room. (I did that to a roommate once who wouldn't stop blasting her radio at night. She thought we had a mysterious electrical problem.)

[WANDERER]

Hey...nearly thirty and totally dependent on his parents...that's not exactly great...I agree that it's not entirely healthy for him to be doing that.
Breaking it up:
Looking after his living expenses...many would charge board to cover the costs of food, household bills and expect some effort towards domestic chores. He's lucky. But he needs to clean his room or get his own place.

Petrol and books....that's pretty generous...if he has no other source of income I can understand supporting him with costs related to academics...kind of.

Other expenses: not really....this is called sponging. If he's abusing the bank card then perhaps store cards: petrol and bookshop cards might be considered if you still are able to and want to help him out there.

So either he needs to get a college loan (since he doesn't want to work) or get a part time job. One or two nights a week isn't going to kill his grade level. He needs to think about doing this for the next two years as it's not part of the original agreement and fair enough. Some negotiating needs to be done here in order to retain peace...it might not be that you get everything you want either...but a little bit of give.

What he does with his spare time is what he does with his spare time...as long as his grade level is good it's really a side issue as long as he's still doing what he has to do. When you think of all the stuff he could be getting into instead..computer games is not all that stressy (no I'm not into computer games...I'm just a realist..it's not drugs, alcohol, gambling, porn or promiscuity...thank goodness for that...it's a minor annoyance on the scale of things). Don't know how that will work out as a married guy..probably drive his wife a tad insane ...but that's something only he can sort out for himself. In the meanwhile he's in his room and not bothering anyone ; )

[LolaBella]

I agree that this is potentially a very damaging situation. My 21 yr old brother lives at home with his pregnant girlfriend. He expects to be fed altho he does pay rent. My Parents disagreed on how to deal with him. My Mom coddled him and Dad wanted him to be independant. Unfortunately this issue was the straw that broke the camels back and they eventiually divorced. i would do as one poster suggested and have a heart to heart with your son. Then one with your wife, telling her how much you love her, does she have any issues or anything she wants to discuss? Because I think she too is perhaps scared of the next stage in her life-i.e no kids at home. You can resolve this but you MUST communicate. If your wife refuses then it sounds harsh but you may need to give her some sort of ultimatum-'honey, unless we can work together on this and be united, I'm worried that our marriage may be in trouble'. It could be the kick she needs to change her attitude.

[applepansy]

My husband and I are almost in the same pair of shoes you find yourself in. We have been married 32 years. The difference is that I would never give any of my "wannabe-adult" children a credit card, nor would my husband.

When our now 24yo son moved back home, we had the same conversation you had with your son.

Now 2 years and 3 months later. His room doesn't look any better. I can't be proud of accademic accomplishments because there are none. He works construction and is a hard worker (I am proud of this). And he gets himself into difficult situations.

He lost his drivers license and ended up $5000 in debt for tickets and his truck impounded. He would have like for us to bail him out completely. Hubby said absolutley not, I said we need to help him, but not enable him. He moved home, brought his dog, and the rules are; He pays us back every penny before he moves out, He cleans up after himself, He has to help make dinner occassionally, and do other chores as asked, He is suppose to make arrangements for his dog with somebody else when he's not working.

The reality is he pays us (good). He cleans up after himself after I threaten to not tend his dog while he goes out Or when his dad threatens to take his dog to the pound (not good). His room looks like it always has (a mess, not good). I refuse to do his laundry so he does it....sort of (well he's doing it. Jeans, colors, whites. . .one load). My house is a mess, thanks to the dog and my son. I will be throwing out what once was a very nice couch due to the dirt and dog. (My son comes home and plops himself in from of the TV dirty clothes and all, with his dog right there next to him. The couch is not only dirty, it stinks. It will be gone before winter and I'm NOT buying another one for him to ruin. He can sit on the floor.

While he was without driving privileges I drove him to and from work . . . for two years. Two years because that's how long it took him to get everything paid off so that he would be allowed to drive. At one point a kind neighbor picked him up and drove him to work on his way to work and we insisted our son pay our neighbor for gas. I did not drive him to his friends, I did not drive him to the movies. If I was going downtown and he had errands where I was going, great! He could come along.

When he got his license back we didn't buy his car. We will not cosign. The truck we got out of impound was repossessed. If he can't keep current on payments there is not way I can afford to cosign. My hubby did find a used small truck he could afford. Our son paid for it.

Today, we're making progress. But there is still contention. Mostly over his refusal to take responsibility for his responsibilities. Now that he's driving he's gone more. He's not interested in going back to school. He's dating but its more "hanging out" than dating. He's made some mistakes that will follow him.

There is contention, I disagree with some of the absolutes my husband enforces and I disagree with the arguing. My son will ask me to borrow money or tend his dog or whatever before he'll ask his Dad. How do my husband and I deal with the contention? I have all the same feelings your wife does except that I know my husband loves our son and has his best interest in mind. Some day we're not going to be here (death? Illness? enconomy/finacial issues? who knows?). We will not be able to provide a roof, food, or doggy babysitter forever. So it is imperitive that our son learn to stand on his own two feet and survive . . . live with the consequeces of his choices. I'm not doing him any favors by always absobing the blow of the natural consequences of his choices.

Example of choices: Do I buy sports equipment or books? Do I go on a date or buy dog food? Do I anger my parents and cause contention or accept responsibility? Do I go to a movie or put gas in my truck to go to work? There are consequences to every choice we make in live. To absorb the consequences of our childrens choices is to teach them that somebody will always be there to help them out.

Slowly . . . Our son learning. But we have had to let him fall. It is very painful as a mom to let your child fall. I have shed many tears. We still help him, we just don't jump everytime he falls. Sometimes we take an extra day or two to make the decision together whether we help him out again. He has to wait and he has to be patient. And he has to WALK on his own in this life.

The difference between me (as mom) and your wife (as mom) is that I realize that I can't be here for children for their entire lives and I will be held accountable for what I didn't teach. If I am always picking up the pieces of the messes he gets into what am I teaching him? Nothing good.

I have some suggestions. 1. PRAY! and fast. . . go to the temple with your wife and spend some time praying about this particular son 2. try to find some quiet time to talk to your wife and do not let your emotions get out of control, except when you say to her I love you. 3. Put your thoughts and feelings in a letter. . .no emotion involved. My parents (married 51 years) communicate best when they write to each other. 4. Maybe let your wife read the responses here. 5. Talk to your bishop...he can refer you to counseling that will be helpful. . . and I could go on.

It has been when we've been at the temple that some of the best answers to problems with our children have come and the answers haven't just come to me or to my husband but to us both. Example: on the way to the temple (30 minute drive) we were talking about what to do about a concern over our older son age 27. We didn't come to any conclusions on the way. While we were waiting in the chapel for the next session, we were sitting together and I opened a set of scriptures to read while waiting. The first words I read were "for my sake be gentle with the young man." I handed the scripture to my husband and pointed out the passage. This hit us both strongly. . .it was our answer.

Our Heavenly Father is as concerned for your son as he is for you and/or your wife. Sometime its hard to step back and let Heavenly Father take over the parenting of an adult child. As I see it, He was my son's Father first, before we were his earthly parents. Our Heavenly Father has a more prefect knowledge of what my children need than I do. I most certainly can step back and let God take over.

My marriage came first and must remain first because without our marriage we destroy "family" for our wayward children. My children come second and must remain second. We love them. We want to help them. But. . .we want to help them the right way. . . enabling them to continue in behavior that will not help them grow is wrong.
And we must always respect their agency. We cannot force our solution to their problem.

I've said a lot and maybe too much. I hope you find something in my experience helpful.

applepansy

[BenRaines]

How is it anyone can work a full time job, even at minimum wage, and not be able to at least, living at home, pay their own gas, food, entertainment. If they can't then get two jobs. I have had two jobs before.

Most that can't spend it on drugs or alcohol.

Ben Raines

[FunkyTown]

I disagree, Ben - Not that I support this kind of thing, but...

40 hours a week at minimum wage - Let's call it $8/hour at minimum wage(I don't know what it is in the US). That's $320/week minus tax and unemployment insurance. Maybe $1000/month. If he gets a single room in a major city, that will probably be $600/month on up. Insurance and gas, or even food comes and goes and suddenly minimum wage doesn't cover even the bare minimum.

I say if you make minimum wage, don't have a car. You can squeeze by, then, and it'll inspire you to look for something better.

[BenRaines]

In each of these cases they are living at home. Living at home and can't make it on $1,00 a month. Most don't pay rent and can't live on $1,000 a month.

Something is wrong here. Can't make it on $1,000 a month and have to ask parents for spending money.

I bet they have the latest cool cell phones, IPods, as soon as the latest video game comes out they have it, online gamer accounts, clothes, lots of clothes and not from Target or Mervyns, from Abercrombie, Hollister or whoever is the latest trend.

Bottom line is they have been spoiled and nothing more.

I understand that a few here have children with some special needs and that should be the exception to the rule and not the standard.

Ben Raines

[rameumptom]

I agree. If I made $1K a month and was single, I could live comfortably and afford college.