Do I or don't I?

[checkerboy]

OK seeing as I have actually been divorced I would say that she should try to do everything in her power to "fix" the marriage. After that though if she gets the feeling that maybe she should leave then I think she should seriously ponder that option with Heavenly Father. I have a feeling she is depressed and perhaps the communication between her and her husband is strained.

I would think that her own salvation will be determined by a loving Heavenly Father that knows our thoughts and intentions. He will be able to take into account things that we can't see because we aren't this woman.

What I do know is that she will still remain sealed to her son as will her husband if they do divorce. How all that will work out in the eternities though is anyones guess. And just because you are divorced in no way impacts how good you can be as a parent. In fact I am a better father now that I am divorced then I had been when I was married. So the decision is yours but just make sure you take the time to weigh it all out and ask Heavenly Father. I think you have done this so my thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Gwen]

Originally Posted by BenRaines

Yes you should stay married due to temple covenants, unless abuse is involved.

define abuse.... what kind and to what level constitutes over the line?

[HoosierGuy]

Originally Posted by pam

Okay this isn't about me because I'm not married. But I do have a friend that approached me with the question.

The man in many ways is a good husband but I'm just not emotionally happy. I don't feel physically attracted to him. In fact I never really did.

Hmm, he's a good husband? That means he goes to services most Sundays, goes to the Temple with his wife on a regular basis, and does other things that makes him good in many ways. You (your friend) wants to ditch him because you are not physically attracted to him? Ok, I'm sure Jesus was not physically attractive when all that blood was coming out of every poor of His body. You want to ditch him too?

I thought we were suppose to look beyond outer beauty and try to find the inner beauty that people have. I don’t know, never been married. Maybe that woman is not a good wife.

[Honor]

Originally Posted by Gwen

define abuse.... what kind and to what level constitutes over the line?

I don't want to take this off on a tangent from the original post, but that's a question that I've asked many times with regards to my parents marriage. My father has never physically hurt my mother and he's never been as blatant with verbal abuse as a lot of other situations I've heard about, but emotionally, she is empty and he doesn't care. He looks out for #1. She's supported the family financially alone for almost 20 years and is the only one that has tried to change herself for their relationship. He is VERY critical of everyone, ALWYAS quick to judge, NEVER in the wrong, NEVER at fault but also NEVER contributing monetarily or emotionally to the marriage. The only fault I can see on her part is letting the things he does actually work for him!
It certainly seems like a form of abuse to me, but at the same time I've always admired the strength that my mother has. Sometimes I'm not quite sure if she's really enduring to the end or just being a doormat, OR I wonder if enduring to the end sometimes MEANS being a doormat. It would be easy to say from a gospel standpoint, "Mom, your reward is in heaven, just keep hanging on," but I'm not the one in her shoes. I know I wouldn't be as strong as she has been. On the other hand I hate to see her being treated the way she has and I want to say, "Stand up for yourself! He's a jerk!" I can never cheer on a divorce or encourage her to break temple covenants, but how much weight does happiness in this life carry?
I heard Doug Brinley (a marriage and family specialist) say in a seminar that if people think that an unhappy marriage in this life will be magically changed into an eternal one in the next life because they are sealed - they are mistaken. I don't have any answers. I know there are no easy ones. Where is the line between righteously enduring and standing up for yourself? What happens when one partner is content with a mediocre situation and hinders progress in the relationship? Is that justification for dissolving the marriage?

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Originally Posted by pam

Okay this isn't about me because I'm not married. But I do have a friend that approached me with the question.

So...say I've been married in the temple and am just not happy at all. I've been through counseling but nothing changed.

The man in many ways is a good husband but I'm just not emotionally happy. I don't feel physically attracted to him. In fact I never really did. I fee like I'm staying with him just because of the covenants I made in the Temple and because of my young son.

If I were to go with the decision of divorce...what happens to my eternal salvation?

May I point out that either way her eternal salvation is in jeprody. Members often intertwine temple marriage and celestial marriage as one in the same. They are not.

One might have a temple marriage but not a celestial one. The first is made in the temple, the other is built up and maintained throughout life and into the eternities.

A temple marriage is not good enough for our Heavenly Father, he needs spouses to be so intertwined, so loving, and caring for one another that nothing could break them.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by MorningStar

Why did she marry him if she wasn't attracted to him?

I am curious myself...there was some specific reasons why people are married or at least attractive to each other. This is where they need to return to that state.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by pam

If I were to go with the decision of divorce...what happens to my eternal salvation?

If there's any justice in Heaven, what happens to your eternal salvation will be based in part on the impact your divorce had on your son. An innocent child who didn't sign up for a broken family, and who deserves better.

The choice of who to marry must be a very selfish choice. Once the children show up, selfishness goes out the window - you make choices based on what's best for them.

"The best choice for my child is to have a happy mom instead of an unhappy one." - I would guess that's a lie inspired by Satan maybe 95% of the time.

Physical abuse, adultry, addiction, etc - any presence of these, and my answer changes. Without them, my answer is "figure out a way to be happy with what you've got".

LM

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by YoungMormonRoyalist

May I point out that either way her eternal salvation is in jeprody. Members often intertwine temple marriage and celestial marriage as one in the same. They are not.

One might have a temple marriage but not a celestial one. The first is made in the temple, the other is built up and maintained throughout life and into the eternities.

A temple marriage is not good enough for our Heavenly Father, he needs spouses to be so intertwined, so loving, and caring for one another that nothing could break them.

True! A temple marriage opens the door to the Celestial Kingdom but at this point, they must become as ZION LIKE - being as one. There is not exact way I can describe this mental picture but conclude, you cannot be without your partner for any length of time. Pure love for each other is always demonstrated in public and in private; having but one purpose, to serve each other forever. The comfort and confidence of being connected to each other is the necessary emotional armor for any eternal relationship that battles this world. As partners, we need and want the touchstone of loving connection. Always resolving any indifference within a marriage and provide a quick solution, thus accept it and move on. They should enjoy the blessings of being together, not just now, but look at it from a perspective of forever.

Any eternal relationship needs the constant reassurance and comfort of contact. When they communicate, part of any given message the other should send, is nonverbal. Eternal partnership needs to improve the impact of exchanges; they need to improve the nonverbal messages as well. Touching in any marriage is quite important. Every time they touch, there's that same feeling, mixed feelings of joy as it was before marriage. Do we still remember those days? Do we remember when we embraced; those feelings would swell up inside us? Its an opportunity to convey feelings to each other, to reassure, to comfort, to connect as partners. Living in this Telestial state, a world that seems designed to isolate and insulate us from each other, the loving contact of a partner is the beacon on a foggy night that GOD intended to guide us home, which is the Celestial Kingdom. If I could draw example of such, take a look at Michelangelo’s artwork used in the Sistine Chapel. What does it convey? An eternal connection between GOD and humanity with a touch!!! Any relationship needs to do this daily or often as we make contact with our partner. Even children need this assurance daily.

Last, I did notice when ever the [late President of the church] Kimballs were out together; there was a pattern that was often seen. How close you sit or stand, when free to choose, is often an eternal barometer of how well the relationship is doing. Those who experience any marriage counseling may have seen several seating arrangements in the office, and they note carefully where the couple chooses to sit relative to each other. Last, another sign of Zion like affection is holding hands, walking arm in arm, or having your arm around your partner as you walk or sit, are all expressions of commitment and eternal connection as partners.

There was a time in my life, as I briefly discussed in one of my testimony, if I could change - - - - such feelings of eternal noble sentiment may be more difficult to come by when we leave the path. The one who is eternal married, who should be enjoying the embrace of a high-quality partnership, but is not, there are no tears as bitter as those that flow from the eyes of a neglected or rejected partner. No failure is more painful than that associated with the failure of a once hopeful eternal marriage. Shattered dreams, fear for the future, and grave concern for children amplify the disappointment of trust betrayed. In the end, it is nothing more than loneliness...sorry, I will stop rambling.

[checkerboy]

Originally Posted by Honor

how much weight does happiness in this life carry?

I like what you asked. How much weight does it carry? I believe that you make your own happiness. At the same time you choose your relationships. I feel like if both parties can't work to make that relationship work then, seriously, why stay together? I am not advocating divorce. But in my situation I know that no matter how hard I tried I couldn't make my ex love me. That was her choice. Once she decided that she was done with the relationship there was nothing I could do to change her mind. I think there is more to this story that we aren't being told.

Honor my parents are the same way as yours. I believe the only reason my mom stayed with my dad was because of us kids. Unless my dad gets his act together they will not be married for eternity.

Now the question for our OP's friend then is - If I stay here can I be happy? If you can still be happy and not get the love and devotion that you deserve then by all means stay. It will be much better for your child. If you can't though (and no woman should feel obligated to stay in a marriage that isn't providing the things she needs) then it is time to refocus your life and find a situation that is better for you and your child.

[pam]

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

Hmm, he's a good husband? That means he goes to services most Sundays, goes to the Temple with his wife on a regular basis, and does other things that makes him good in many ways. You (your friend) wants to ditch him because you are not physically attracted to him? Ok, I'm sure Jesus was not physically attractive when all that blood was coming out of every poor of His body. You want to ditch him too?

I thought we were suppose to look beyond outer beauty and try to find the inner beauty that people have. I don’t know, never been married. Maybe that woman is not a good wife.

Wow that was a little over the top but ummm..okay. Physical attraction does play a part in marriage.