Need Advice To Save My Marriage

[broadway]

Originally posted by Ammon@Mar 19 2004, 08:59 PM
Ever heard the country song that says, "Men don't change?" Believe it. GET OUT OF THAT MARRIAGE.

geez guys....if she wanted to hear the benefits of getting divorce, she could have just watched a sit com. Instead, she came to an LDS board seeking spiritual advice. WHY would you allow the church to be represented in this manner??


DO NOT DIVORCE THIS MAN just because of this. My husbands father got baptised after 20 years of marriage. They are going to the temple soon where we will be sealed to them and each other.

For God's sake, ignore ignorance.

[broadway]

Working Girl,

I read your long post giving a few details. Though I am no expert in marriage, I will be happily married for four years in June. Also, I have a three year old son and a little girl on her way (also in June).

Perhaps a little different perspective, here...You know, he isn't doing anything different than what you are doing (emotionally, anyways) You both are being self-centered. I am not saying this to downplay your pain or to make him look like the good guy or what have you. You said that you two started to hit some real problems then he began to drink a lot. Hmmm....That doesn't seem that out of place to me. Should this happen? No, of course not. Things like this should never happen. But should you ignore his needs and expect him to concentrate on just you? No, of course not. Marriage is hard. Otherwise, it wouldn't be any good.

Yes, you guys should have been more honest with yourselves and each other before getting married. Yes, you two should have waited those six months. But, you know what...you didn't. Life goes on. You two made a committment to one another. A committment that Heavenly Father takes seriously even though it wasn't done in a temple. Divorce isn't the answer in most marriages. Communication, honesty and trust are.

What's done is done. You can't go back now and put your foot down. (Niether can he, you know...he is going through this too.) What you two CAN do is remember why you two wanted to get married in the first place. You two were in love with one another. You can do that again. A wise lady once told me that true love only exists on the other side of marriage. I can vouch for that. I thought I loved my husband before we got married. I was wrong. Man! Was I wrong. I love him so much, now. I laugh to think that I ever called it love before.

This isn't because we haven't had our share of downs. We have gone through some tremendous times. And it wasn't always because of outside circumstances. We are stronger because of the times we got through together. We are more able now, four years later, to get through tough times. We went through two times of career uncertainty (he was about to lose his job twice) and we are now going through it a thrid time...this time it isn't uncertain. We know he is going to lose his job. We have gone through so many financial troubles. We have gone through many "Choose me or your parents" fights. We even survived unfaithfulness (depending on how you define 'unfaithful')

We went through these things with the commitment in mind. We knew that we made a very serious decision to get married and that to forsake that commitment without giving it 100% effort would be a sin. And it would also, in your case. God sanctioned marriage as something holy between a man and a woman. That it isn't eternal doesn't mean that it isn't still a sin to forsake it. Just because it is easier to divorce now that it is a civil marriage doesn't make it any less of a sin. (You should understand this, since you explained the same thing to your husband about drinking)

I can already tell you what your bishop will tell you...Unless there is physical or sexual abuse going on, then you two should strive to remain married. He may give you more details and better advice on how to do just that, but that will be his conclusion. I would advise going to your bishop twice (at least) once by yourself and once with your husband.

Perhaps start a discussion with your husband by asking him if he still loves you. Then ask him if he still wants to be married to you. From there, you can ask what areas he thinks needs improvement. (Be sure to ask this in a way that would make it easier for him to admitt to any of his own faults) Perhaps go into some things that you think you should have done better, before asking him to tell you what he thinks you should have done or telling him what he should have done better. This will make it easier for him to swallow some pride and have an honest conversation. If you have done some things that he is unaware of or you have had some doubts/thoughts etc that he doesn't know about, tell him. Open yourself up to vulnerability. This is the only way to get him to open up. And opening up is the only way to communicate. Communication is vital to a marriage.

Your marriage isn't doomed to failure. Many marriages start out really rough (like mine) and can be rough for a long time before getting better. You said yourself that your parents didn't get sealed until later. This can happen for you as well. It is your decision as to whether you two have kids. I would like to point out that you two are still questioning whether to stay married. Perhaps waiting a little longer wouldn't hurt. This is a decision that you and your husband are the sole decision-makers. Others can only give advice based on the little information provided them (this includes your parents, bishop, etc).

I want to stress right now that divorce isn't the way. You both are being selfish here, not just one of you. If you both realize this, any amount of good can come from it. Give it a try.

You can email me, if you like...

bwayv@cox.net


broadway

[juliejalago]

I think eStump and Broadway both had some good advice. But I personally I would never call a person selfish for wanting an eternal family unit or for wanting a husband that isn't on a fast track to alcoholism. But if an eternal family unit is what you truly want, you are going to have to swallow your pride and start living worthy of it yourself. Go to church regularly, repent of your own weaknesses, accept Church callings and seek opportunities to lose yourself in service to others who are struggling in their own unique ways. Be determined and committed to your faith, and realize that just because you are ready to grow doesn't mean your spouse is ready to make those same goals. Be an example, but give him as much love without condemnation as you can. Make yourself right with the Lord, and you will reap spiritual blessings, including discernment regarding how to proceed with your marital challenges. I would not suggest divorce as a means to go "spouse shopping" for someone more appealing. But if things are so bad in your marriage that you would be happier being single the rest of your life -- never remarrying-- than remaining married, then that is a clue (IMO) that divorce may be justified.

[broadway]

Originally posted by juliejalago@May 18 2004, 10:59 PM
I think eStump and Broadway both had some good advice.* But I personally I would never call a person selfish for wanting an eternal family unit or for wanting a husband that isn't on a fast track to alcoholism.* But if an eternal family unit is what you truly want, you are going to have to swallow your pride and start living worthy of it yourself.* Go to church regularly, repent of your own weaknesses, accept Church callings and seek opportunities to lose yourself in service to others who are struggling in their own unique ways.* Be determined and committed to your faith, and realize that just because you are ready to grow doesn't mean your spouse is ready to make those same goals.* Be an example, but give him as much love without condemnation as you can.* Make yourself right with the Lord, and you will reap spiritual blessings, including discernment regarding how to proceed with your marital challenges.* I would not suggest divorce as a means to go "spouse shopping" for someone more appealing.* But if things are so bad in your marriage that you would be happier being single the rest of your life -- never remarrying-- than remaining married, then that is a clue (IMO) that divorce may be justified.

(with the exception of getting a divorce because of one's own preferences in life) great advice, indeed.

I am just not an advocate of divorce at all. I hold divorce with the same amount of seriousness as an abortion. Though there may be some very valid exceptions, it should NEVER be among the first solutions considered.

broadway

I think divorce should be the last resort....But I don't think people should live unhappy in a marriage for 10-20 years in hopes it should get better either. Go to your bishop and meet with him, set up a meeting for the two of you and the bishop. Also try seing an lds marriage councelor. If these things continue to get worse over the next year after taking exstream messures to fix them, then I would look at the eternal state of it. But you need to both make a 100% effort first.

Just my 2 cents
Laureltree

[Lindy]

Some very good advice from those on this board who care about other people and have pretty good heads on their shoulders.
Since I have been divorced with alcohol having a big part of that situation...I am a bit biased.
Some of the good advice I see....

"Though there may be some very valid exceptions, it should NEVER be among the first solutions considered."

"Seeing an lds marriage councelor."

"Go to church regularly, repent of your own weaknesses, accept Church callings and seek opportunities to lose yourself in service to others who are struggling in their own unique ways. Be determined and committed to your faith, and realize that just because you are ready to grow doesn't mean your spouse is ready to make those same goals. Be an example, but give him as much love without condemnation as you can. Make yourself right with the Lord"

"You two made a committment to one another. A committment that Heavenly Father takes seriously even though it wasn't done in a temple. Divorce isn't the answer in most marriages. Communication, honesty and trust are."

"What you two CAN do is remember why you two wanted to get married in the first place. You two were in love with one another. You can do that again"

My advice....Communicate-Counselling-Committment
A marriage and a friendship are worth saving....try to save the marriage with your husband (who should be your best friend)
Key words to remember in any marriage...Love, Faith, Trust, along with communication and committment.

My two cents

[cedar]

Originally posted by broadway+May 12 2004, 09:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (broadway @ May 12 2004, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--cedar@Feb 10 2004, 12:29 PM
Well it is a civil marriage.* So it is a lot easier to get out of than an eternal marriage.* Lose him.* Good thing you don't have kids yet.*

PS- I am very insensitive.

What in the HECK are you talking about????

Your advice to her is to divorce him???

I hope she doesn't take you seriously.

The church is full of members who converted after several years of happy marriage. Please, working girl, do not take this person's advice. I would say talk to your bishop. Your bishop will have very relevant wisdom for you. Also, read your patriarcal blessing. Sometimes this goes to help encourage us. If you do not have one, get one. It is invaluable.

broadway [/b][/quote]
Did you not reaed the long post. She just said that if things don't change she is going to divorce him. After reading the entire story I would agree with her on giving him 5 years. She has given him plenty of control. She can say, " ok pal, on the 5th anneversary, if you have not changed, see ya later."

working girl, I think you are right to give him an ultimatum (did I spell that right?). Just follow through after the 5th year. Also, outline for him what specifically needs to change. From what you have posted, I think you should ask for him to lose any friends who drink, stop drinking, attend aa meetings, take a dwi course (you don't have to be convicted to take this course. Your DMV would let you do it for free), and attend all meetings with you regularly.

[cedar]

Originally posted by broadway+May 12 2004, 09:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (broadway @ May 12 2004, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ammon@Mar 19 2004, 08:59 PM
Ever heard the country song that says, "Men don't change?"* Believe it.* GET OUT OF THAT MARRIAGE.

geez guys....if she wanted to hear the benefits of getting divorce, she could have just watched a sit com. Instead, she came to an LDS board seeking spiritual advice. WHY would you allow the church to be represented in this manner??


DO NOT DIVORCE THIS MAN just because of this. My husbands father got baptised after 20 years of marriage. They are going to the temple soon where we will be sealed to them and each other.

For God's sake, ignore ignorance. [/b][/quote]
Broadway, the situation is unbareable for her. The man is getting worse. Should she have to wait for him to grow up? They are young 20 year olds out there who are great husbands, fathers and holders of the Priesthood. Plus, he married her on false pretenses. He is a deceitful person!

Originally posted by juliejalago@May 18 2004, 10:59 PM
I think eStump and Broadway both had some good advice.* But I personally I would never call a person selfish for wanting an eternal family unit or for wanting a husband that isn't on a fast track to alcoholism.* But if an eternal family unit is what you truly want, you are going to have to swallow your pride and start living worthy of it yourself.* Go to church regularly, repent of your own weaknesses, accept Church callings and seek opportunities to lose yourself in service to others who are struggling in their own unique ways.* Be determined and committed to your faith, and realize that just because you are ready to grow doesn't mean your spouse is ready to make those same goals.* Be an example, but give him as much love without condemnation as you can.* Make yourself right with the Lord, and you will reap spiritual blessings, including discernment regarding how to proceed with your marital challenges.* I would not suggest divorce as a means to go "spouse shopping" for someone more appealing.* But if things are so bad in your marriage that you would be happier being single the rest of your life -- never remarrying-- than remaining married, then that is a clue (IMO) that divorce may be justified.

This advice is pretty much what I was going to give.
I also agree with Broadway.

You need to be Temple worthy yourself.
Take the necessary steps.
You can get your Endowment without your husband you know.
I did.

I'm married to a nonmenber.
That didn't stop me from becoming Temple worthy and holding a Temple recommend.
Do I go to church alone? Yes, I do.
Now I go to church with my daughter.
Is it hard? Yes.
But you LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

By not doing the things you need to do to be Temple worthy you are saying to your husband, "I don't care about an eternal marriage."
When you start doing the things you need to do, your prayers will be answered.
God is waiting for you to act, to take the first steps.
It's difficult to help someone who acts like they don't want to be helped by not taking any advice given. (In this case by not doing anything church oriented.)
Get your personal house in order first. (That being YOU.)
Until you do, your husband will not change.

[working-girl]

I'm comforted by alot of the advice I have just read from all of you. I went to church for the first time a month ago and have gone every Sunday since. I sit by myself and have to keep myself from crying during sacrament meeting as I watch everyone there with there perfect little families and me there, all alone. I've been in this ward for 9 months and the bishop has never called, stopped by, or even acknoledged me being at church. Other wards I've been in have been so friendly. I know this should have nothing to do with my commitment to attending my meetings, but it sure does make it harder to go. I get up and get ready for church and he just kind of ignores me and then asks where i'm going. I've also started to read my scriptures every night--he also asks me what i'm doing then (because after he goes to bed I stay in the living room and read them for a few min) If I try to read them when he's in the living room with me he gets upset because i'm not talking to him instead. We just got the opportunity to purchase a family members house for a very good deal--it's almost final and yesterday he told me that he doesn't know if he wants to buy it because he doesn't know what's going to happen with us! I'm not going to let him ruin this--there is no reason we have to keep renting an apartment and throw money away just because he's not sure what kind of a relationship we will have in 10 years. He's always telling me that I've changed and he wants the old me back. I admit that I have changed--wouldn't anyone have after going through what I have? Just last week I was mowing the lawn and he was at the lake with is friends. I needed to move his work car and in it I found a calendar with naked women on it. When I confronted him about it he got mad saying that I was just snooping trying to find something--he turned it around to make me look like the bad guy. Then he tried to tell me that a friend had given it to him and he hadn't even looked at it. HELLO, does he think i'm stupid? How many guys could be handed a calendar like that and resist looking at it? Not very many i'm afraid. I finally got him to admit he likes things like that. He said, if I can't see it at home I might as well see it somewhere else!!!! It just makes me sick inside to think what goes through his mind when he looks at stuff like that. He makes me feel like a fat ugly elephant. All the time I have people tell me how lucky my husband is to have a wife like me and that he better appreciate me. Problem is I never feel appreciated.
I know i've been cranky and short with him the last while--it's hard not to be when he's doing so much to hurt me inside. He literally makes me feel like i'm not worth anything and that his lifestyle and friends are more important than being with me forever.
In someone's post they mentioned making him get rid of his friends that drank and partied. I honestly think if I told him he had to choose between his best friend and me that he would choose his friend. I know that's awful to say but that's how I feel. A couple of years ago I was very bossy and forceful about all of this. I wouldn't let him go anywhere with his friends without me and when we were all together I wouldn't let him drink-like that fixed anything-he'd just sneak around and do it. So we made a deal I would try to not get mad and yell at him for doing these things if he wouldn't lie about doing them and sneak around. He's done well and I've done well as far as not getting openly made, but he knows it makes me mad and as hard as I try to not be mad and not care I just can't. It just makes me sad inside.
Feel free to give me your thoughts and advice. I'm up for anything.
I did talk to my last bishop about this-it was when my husband filed divorce papers last summer when I was so sick-he basically said we should stay married and that his drinking and not wanting a temple marriage shouldn't matter if we loved eachother. I just can't agree with that. I was raised with an active mother and a very inactive father and I won't raise my kids like that. In primary when we'd learn about temples and families being sealed forever I thought there was something wrong with me because my dad didn't want to be sealed to me forever. Then I taught primary for a while after I was married and it was so hard to teach those little kids those things--and then they'd ask me what temple I got married in! Talk about a heart breaker. I couldn't teach them the things they should do when I wasn't doing them. I would love to teach primary again-I absolutely loved it, I love kids-but then I think of that and I feel so bad.
I don't know if this appropriate for this site--i'm unfamiliar with the rules. When my hubby and I are fighting all I have to do is be intimate with him and he's happy as can be and tells me how much he loves me, if I say no he asks me whats wrong with me, and why I don't like it and there must be something wrong with me and that I must not love him if I don't want to do it with him. It's none of those things. I feel like sex to him isn't special-it's just getting laid. He always hurts me because he won't wait for me and it's always about him-I feel like i'm used. I also think he might have a sexual problem (I don't know, maybe all men are like this) he's obsessed with sex, every comment anyone makes he turns into something naughty-I can't even bend over to pick something up without him trying to attack me. Do all men get mad at their wifes if they don't want to be intimate