Need advice, may leave church

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by pam

The history of the Church makes no difference to me at all. It's the doctrine that I hold on to.

The clincher for me is when I prayed to know if the Book of Mormon was true, if Joseph Smith was a prophet and if (At the time) Gordon B. Hinckley was a prophet and the Church was true I'm fairly sure that the Holy Ghost was fully aware of the history of the Church, so its not like something is going to (or has been) discovered that is going to make the Holy Ghost go, "Woah, wait up a minute, nobody told me about that!"

[beefche]

Originally Posted by Dravin

The clincher for me is when I prayed to know if the Book of Mormon was true, if Joseph Smith was a prophet and if (At the time) Gordon B. Hinckley was a prophet and the Church was true I'm fairly sure that the Holy Ghost was fully aware of the history of the Church, so its not like something is going to (or has been) discovered that is going to make the Holy Ghost go, "Woah, wait up a minute, nobody told me about that!"

(sorry, my English major is kicking in..."woah" is spelled "whoa"--thank you and now back to your normal programming)

[beefche]

Originally Posted by Dravin

The clincher for me is when I prayed to know if the Book of Mormon was true, if Joseph Smith was a prophet and if (At the time) Gordon B. Hinckley was a prophet and the Church was true I'm fairly sure that the Holy Ghost was fully aware of the history of the Church, so its not like something is going to (or has been) discovered that is going to make the Holy Ghost go, "Woah, wait up a minute, nobody told me about that!"

When I teach at church, I've taught that at some point in your church "career", you WILL get offended....you WILL find something about the church that displeases you or offends you....you WILL have a moment when something or someone makes you wonder about your testimony of the church. So I then ask a rhetorical question to my class..."what is it going to be for you, personally?" Is it going to be someone saying something to your kids that ticks you off? Will it be finding out that your bishop has sinned greatly and is now excommunicated? Is it the husband of that woman you can't stand is now the bishop?

So, again I say, prepare NOW for what it is that could drive you from the church or attending church. Strengthen your testimony of the doctrine and truths of the Gospel. Forgive others and focus on strengthening faith in the Lord. Make a real commitment and covenant to follow Christ and His chosen leaders.

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by beefche

(sorry, my English major is kicking in..."woah" is spelled "whoa"--thank you and now back to your normal programming)

Not if you want the Holy Ghost to sound like Keanu Reeves.

[bjw]

Originally Posted by beefche

When I teach at church, I've taught that at some point in your church "career", you WILL get offended....you WILL find something about the church that displeases you or offends you....you WILL have a moment when something or someone makes you wonder about your testimony of the church. So I then ask a rhetorical question to my class..."what is it going to be for you, personally?" Is it going to be someone saying something to your kids that ticks you off? Will it be finding out that your bishop has sinned greatly and is now excommunicated? Is it the husband of that woman you can't stand is now the bishop?

So, again I say, prepare NOW for what it is that could drive you from the church or attending church. Strengthen your testimony of the doctrine and truths of the Gospel. Forgive others and focus on strengthening faith in the Lord. Make a real commitment and covenant to follow Christ and His chosen leaders.

This is something that I haven't thought much about through all of this but it brings up a good point. I feel like my anger toward the bishop, SP, EQ Pres, and clerks makes it easier for me to just stay home Sundays and not have to face these people. I think that if I do decide to go back I will have to learn to forget about this anger and go for the message and not these people. Besides, the church rotates these leaders every so often anyway. I'm glad you brought this up because this is something I would like to get straightened out before I decide if I am going to go back.

[bjw]

I have a little update on my situation...

I had my meeting with the head high councilman this morning. We talked for about an hour about my concerns and it did help me to feel better about this situation, but I am going to have to find a way to reconcile with the other local leaders. I let you know a few of the things I brought up to him and what he told me:

The Ira Fulton situation: He said he is flying to SLC this week for a business trip and he would check on it while he was there. He said he believed there must be more to the story because he couldn't imagine the church being that careless, since he used to work in the church's finance department.

Joseph Smith: He said JS wasn't perfect and that he believes some accounts of his life are exagerrated by people trying to make him look bad. About the Kirtland bank failure he said many other banks failed this period, but JS took a lot more heat than other bankers because so many believed he was a prophet, and that all his investments must make money. He said the people just put too much faith in JS as a man and didn't realize he was human like everyone else and made mistakes. He said he realizes the church is going to try to show its leaders in the best light possible so you have to try to find a balance on your own.

Emma Smith: The church tries to focus on the positives she did instead of the negatives, being more optimistic about her. He did confirm that Emma apostacized from the church later in life and didn't go west with the saints.

Book of Mormon plagiarism accusations: He said he believed that Satan has set up a lot of these things to appear similar to the BoM, and that there's only so much language you can use about the resurrection as in Alma 40 (which some claim quotes the Westminster Confession). He said he believed this about the Spaulding novel as well. Also, that the covenants taken by the Gadianton Robbers were an example of Satan attempting to counterfeit the temple covenants.

Endowment/Freemasonry, Initiatory/Wicca Connection: He said that many other traditions still have the temple rituals somewhat intact from ancient times, but since they were not lead by prophets and didn't have the priesthood they were left to start their own societies with these traditions. These traditions were passed on from ancient times, and since they are hinted at in ancient texts and archaology people know the ordinances should be done, so they do them but don't have the proper authority that we have in the church. I thought this made sense since masonry and wicca both claim their ceremonies origination has been lost "in the mists of time."

Cain/Satan taking blood oath in the Book of Moses: I asked if he thought this was not plagiarized from masonry but was instead Satan's early attempt to counter a type of a temple covenant, and he said I was on the right track. That Satan always tries to counterfeit the things of God.

Polyandry in the early church: He said this occured so the women could be sealed into the covenant because sometimes they were in a time only marriage. Both the ex-bishop and this high councilman seem to think that many of these were not consummated like the other polygamous marriages. He also said that no seduction was involved with young girls like the antimormons try to claim.

All in all I was satisfied with his answers to my questions and I felt it was a very meaninful discussion. I showed up at his house pretty much thinking I was on my way out of the church and I left with a much better understanding. I could tell that he had the Spirit and I felt satisified with the answers he gave. I think it just goes to show that we shouldn't expect perfection from the church. The fact that he was so knowledgable also makes me glad, because it kinda dispels the idea that the church is trying very hard to hide the truth from everyone.

After talking to him I've decided I would like to try to go back after I take some time to contemplate a little more. I also need to smooth things over with the rest of the church leadership that I feel are still angry at me. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Thanks everyone on here for continuing to support me.

[ztodd]

We're always here for ya- I'm real glad to hear that things are going better.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by bjw

Thanks everyone on here for continuing to support me.

We will continue to support you, just let us know.

[john doe]

After talking to him I've decided I would like to try to go back after I take some time to contemplate a little more. I also need to smooth things over with the rest of the church leadership that I feel are still angry at me. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

I doubt that they are angry with you. I would imagine that they are more hurt that you would think and say such things about them before trying to understand the situation more fully. Although, the hurt can turn to disgust if this becomes a pattern with you. Dragging people and the church through the mud every time you choose to become offended has a way of making people a little callous when dealing with you.

[bjw]

I noticed something interesting tonight when I was going through my Patriarchal Blessing. One thing caught my attention and just suddenly hit me that I hadn't thought much about, and I'd like to share it with you guys to see what you think. There is one sentence that is kinda random and doesn't pertain to much of what is around it. It says "You will have an understanding of the various parts of the church, the diversity of operations." This comes oddly right after a sentence about believing in Jesus Christ and the Atonement.

I hadn't really given this much thought until now, but I'm wondering if this may have something to do with the situation I'm going through now, since this pertains a lot to my concern about how our church is operated. I wonder if this patriarch has said this to others or if this is common in patriarchal blessings. Either way, I think its pretty interesting. I suddenly had a strange feeling when I got to this sentence while reading the PB tonight. Any thoughts?