Need advice, may leave church

[skippy740]

Originally Posted by bjw

There is a big difference here, the Bible does not attempt to sugercoat or lie about things that happen in the past. Even drastic things God does are presented in the open, like when people are killed in the OT or prophets disobey God.

A few example of things I take issue with: Emma Smith poisoned Joseph Smith's coffee, and Joseph Smith's brother Samuel died mysteriously of poison. (Some attempted to frame Brigham Young) Brigham Young in the JoD said that Emma Smith was insane and had lost her mind and was an apostate. Yet today she is called "the elect lady" with pictures of her hanging in relief society rooms and movies made. She is viewed as a heroine that young women can pattern their lives after. Which is it?
In fact, the Relief Society was disbanded by the church for a 20 year period when Emma began teaching anti-polygamy doctrine, and was reinstated later in SLC by Brigham. According to Sherry Dew, it was disbanded because of mob persecution.

OD-1 now appears in the D&C as a revelation that was mandatory for the church to follow forbidding plural marriage, issued by God's prophet Wilford Woodruff. Yet, 6,000 plural marriages were performed between 1890 and 1910, long after the alleged revelation, some of which were performed by Woodruff personally or were Woodruff taking on additional wives. It wasn't until the Senate hearing that the second manifesto was issued in 1910 making monogamy mandatory for Latter-day Saints, but was left out of the D&C. This was discussed recently by pro-Mormon apologists on MADB just a week ago.

Joseph Smith committed numerous crimes during the course of his leadership in the church, some of which include the Kirtland Banking Scandal, secret polygamy, and the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor printing press (which led to his death). The priesthood manual and church history literature (Our Heritage, etc.) leaves out the reasons whenever Joseph Smith is imprisoned or even the reason he was killed. I agree that what happened to him was a travesty, but to say that he had no part in bringing the persecution on himself is simply not true, and the historical record confirms it.

I have also found out things recently like when the Book of Mormon in Alma 40 quotes the Westminster Confession and the Book of Abraham translation issues. I have some temple-related issues that I can't mention here but it bothers me.

Honestly, it just broke my heart when I learned these things. I've been a very staunch defender of the church, you can even see that in my past threads on here and MADB, but lately the more I learn about it is the less I find I am able to defend it. I would like to have an answer to these things. I honestly want to believe that the church is true. Even the Bible is more honest than this when talking about the disobedience of prophets and problems with God's people.

I'm scheduled to meet with the bishop tomorrow night and I am going to tell him about all of my doubts in addition to the problems with the EQ President and tell him that I would just like a break from everything, at least from 3rd hour. I would also like to know if there is an answer to some of these things. I pray I can stay in the church and I also pray that the church will be more honest in the future.

IF you know that the Gospel and the Church is true...

What does any of this have to do with your Eternal Salvation?

[skippy740]

"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. And let history make its own judgments"

- Zephram Cochran in Star Trek: First Contact

[Hemidakota]

Ken, thanks for sharing your experience.

[talisyn]

bjw, I hate to say it but I will anyways - you're in some major spiritual trouble. I suggest you go back to what you know is true, and that is prayer, fasting, scripture study, and more prayer. Anything else is idle speculation. Were you there in the mid-1800s? Were any of the authors of the books you've been reading? Even if they were they aren't Emma and Joseph and Brigham. So, if you weren't and they weren't then what you have is conjecture and speculation. You could have 4 people write a paper using the same quote and get 4 different views.

MaDB is a good site, but sometimes they go completely nuts and off the wall as far as things of an eternal nature are concerned.

[Apostate]

Sadly, bjw...I think you have a hidden agenda here and have been and continue to be disingenuous with these well meaning Latter Day Saints, concerned for you and your well being...

Shame on you!!!

[Apostate]

Originally Posted by bjw

There is a big difference here, the Bible does not attempt to sugercoat or lie about things that happen in the past. Even drastic things God does are presented in the open, like when people are killed in the OT or prophets disobey God.

A few example of things I take issue with: Emma Smith poisoned Joseph Smith's coffee, and Joseph Smith's brother Samuel died mysteriously of poison. (Some attempted to frame Brigham Young) Brigham Young in the JoD said that Emma Smith was insane and had lost her mind and was an apostate. Yet today she is called "the elect lady" with pictures of her hanging in relief society rooms and movies made. She is viewed as a heroine that young women can pattern their lives after. Which is it?
In fact, the Relief Society was disbanded by the church for a 20 year period when Emma began teaching anti-polygamy doctrine, and was reinstated later in SLC by Brigham. According to Sherry Dew, it was disbanded because of mob persecution.

OD-1 now appears in the D&C as a revelation that was mandatory for the church to follow forbidding plural marriage, issued by God's prophet Wilford Woodruff. Yet, 6,000 plural marriages were performed between 1890 and 1910, long after the alleged revelation, some of which were performed by Woodruff personally or were Woodruff taking on additional wives. It wasn't until the Senate hearing that the second manifesto was issued in 1910 making monogamy mandatory for Latter-day Saints, but was left out of the D&C. This was discussed recently by pro-Mormon apologists on MADB just a week ago.

Joseph Smith committed numerous crimes during the course of his leadership in the church, some of which include the Kirtland Banking Scandal, secret polygamy, and the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor printing press (which led to his death). The priesthood manual and church history literature (Our Heritage, etc.) leaves out the reasons whenever Joseph Smith is imprisoned or even the reason he was killed. I agree that what happened to him was a travesty, but to say that he had no part in bringing the persecution on himself is simply not true, and the historical record confirms it.

I have also found out things recently like when the Book of Mormon in Alma 40 quotes the Westminster Confession and the Book of Abraham translation issues. I have some temple-related issues that I can't mention here but it bothers me.

Honestly, it just broke my heart when I learned these things. I've been a very staunch defender of the church, you can even see that in my past threads on here and MADB, but lately the more I learn about it is the less I find I am able to defend it. I would like to have an answer to these things. I honestly want to believe that the church is true. Even the Bible is more honest than this when talking about the disobedience of prophets and problems with God's people.

I'm scheduled to meet with the bishop tomorrow night and I am going to tell him about all of my doubts in addition to the problems with the EQ President and tell him that I would just like a break from everything, at least from 3rd hour. I would also like to know if there is an answer to some of these things. I pray I can stay in the church and I also pray that the church will be more honest in the future.

bjw...Others may weep and wail and beg you to rethink and stay...I on the other hand upon reading this bit of codswallop have no problem seeing you for what you are...a complete and total fraud.

I'm at a loss as to what motivates folks like you, truly and sincerely at a loss. So I'll just await the firestorm of indignation that I'm sure will come from you...ending with your I'm hasta thanks to a jerk like Apostate post....

[the Ogre]

Dude, you need to stop reading the anti stuff. It was designed to confuse and obfuscate and stretch (and sometimes just lie about) the truth. Ignore it. None of it is intended to uplift or edify, only destroy and ridicule. Next, ignore the apologists too, they might be trying to explain and defend the church, but most of the time they are merely showing off their recent Ph.Ds and enjoying the proceeds from their book sales.

Originally Posted by bjw

There is a big difference here, the Bible does not attempt to sugercoat or lie about things that happen in the past. Even drastic things God does are presented in the open, like when people are killed in the OT or prophets disobey God.

A few example of things I take issue with: Emma Smith poisoned Joseph Smith's coffee, and Joseph Smith's brother Samuel died mysteriously of poison. (Some attempted to frame Brigham Young) Brigham Young in the JoD said that Emma Smith was insane and had lost her mind and was an apostate. Yet today she is called "the elect lady" with pictures of her hanging in relief society rooms and movies made. She is viewed as a heroine that young women can pattern their lives after. Which is it?
In fact, the Relief Society was disbanded by the church for a 20 year period when Emma began teaching anti-polygamy doctrine, and was reinstated later in SLC by Brigham. According to Sherry Dew, it was disbanded because of mob persecution.

OD-1 now appears in the D&C as a revelation that was mandatory for the church to follow forbidding plural marriage, issued by God's prophet Wilford Woodruff. Yet, 6,000 plural marriages were performed between 1890 and 1910, long after the alleged revelation, some of which were performed by Woodruff personally or were Woodruff taking on additional wives. It wasn't until the Senate hearing that the second manifesto was issued in 1910 making monogamy mandatory for Latter-day Saints, but was left out of the D&C. This was discussed recently by pro-Mormon apologists on MADB just a week ago.

Joseph Smith committed numerous crimes during the course of his leadership in the church, some of which include the Kirtland Banking Scandal, secret polygamy, and the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor printing press (which led to his death). The priesthood manual and church history literature (Our Heritage, etc.) leaves out the reasons whenever Joseph Smith is imprisoned or even the reason he was killed. I agree that what happened to him was a travesty, but to say that he had no part in bringing the persecution on himself is simply not true, and the historical record confirms it.

I have also found out things recently like when the Book of Mormon in Alma 40 quotes the Westminster Confession and the Book of Abraham translation issues. I have some temple-related issues that I can't mention here but it bothers me.

Honestly, it just broke my heart when I learned these things. I've been a very staunch defender of the church, you can even see that in my past threads on here and MADB, but lately the more I learn about it is the less I find I am able to defend it. I would like to have an answer to these things. I honestly want to believe that the church is true. Even the Bible is more honest than this when talking about the disobedience of prophets and problems with God's people.

I'm scheduled to meet with the bishop tomorrow night and I am going to tell him about all of my doubts in addition to the problems with the EQ President and tell him that I would just like a break from everything, at least from 3rd hour. I would also like to know if there is an answer to some of these things. I pray I can stay in the church and I also pray that the church will be more honest in the future.

[lilered]

Let me offer a different perspective. A few years ago I was teaching in Primary and one of the counselors could be very bossy and snippy at times. She simply said things in a way that offended people including me. Several times, I impulively wanted to quit because of something she did or said. However, each time, I sucked it up (bit my tongue), prayed for her and I and continued on. After about a year, I purchased a small booklet for each of the Primary Presidency, wrote in it, and presented it to them as a gift of my gratitude for their leadership. Another year went by and I was called to another calling. I was asked to speak in Sacrement meeting. Afterwards, this very person that I had often disagreed with and resented at times, came up to me, threw her arms around me and wispered to me how much she had appreciated the book gift, how much she respected and admired me, how much she missed me in Primary, and how much my Sacrement Talk had moved her. Her husband and children were standing there and offered their comments as well.
Moral of the Story: Sometimes we misunderstand peoples motives/methods, personality, and heart. Sometimes it is better to continue on, in spite of othere people.

[Kenny]

Thanks but it was not me reading anti stuff

[mlbrowninwa]

I cannot speak about problems within the LDS church, but can speak of them inside other churches. No person inside this church or any church is perfect and believe me these types of things happens in all churches. Looking back throughout history we find many examples of church leaders of all denominations that have done questionable things or had ideas we may not agree with. However as others have said, it is Jesus we follow. He is the only one who is perfect.