Questions of faith/truth

[tubaloth]

I told him, I wasn't going to accept that all those who 'pass' are going to live for eternity in bliss, and that God only wanted to spend eternity with the righteous of us.

Its to experience joy! We are here to learn and grow and to become more like our Heavenly Father who has a fullness of Joy. The biggest joy is bring salvation to His Children. Which in the end is what we all hope to do.

I don't believe that God would spend the time, energy, resources, effort on testing us, just to hang out with us at the end.

He is trying to teach us how to be good parents!

Could he be preparing us for an even greater task? If so, why the need to overcome evil, desire, sin, unless there is that same, if not greater evils in the next task?

He is, so we can become like He is! The reason we go through all of this is to overcome evil so that we know how it is done so we can teach others how to do it (our children).

Why would there be a need for a governing body? What the primary function of a government is?

Like what has already been brought up, the point of laws is to have order. The reason God has laws is to have a system of order.

I asked him why the devil, satan, adversary continues to go against God? I told him I wasn't going to accept a scripted 'misery loves company' answer, and that any being surviving thousands of years has by now amassed enough knowledge to understand that he has no power over God, and is destined to failure.

Two things to understand.
1. One of the key points of the Plan of Salvation is the power to choose right from wrong, or agency. That we can make the choices ourselves.
2. Satan wants to be like God, but not really in power, but in honor. Satan wants followers, somebody to in a sense worship him.

Satan then uses this knowledge of agency and knows that God isn’t going to force anybody to choose right or wrong. Satan then tries to in a way slip in the cracks and try to drag us away from God and towards satan. The plan of salvation or the test of this life doesn’t change, we are trying to see if we can follow God by faith. That doesn’t change if satan was here or not.
Satan then wants to get just one more person to follow him. If he can, in a way he feels like he is more like God. In the Satan knows he is going to lose. What he is trying to do is get followers to follow him down the loosing path.

I asked him if God had parents.

The assumption is yes He does, but we wouldn’t know anything about it, because God (our Heavenly Father) doesn’t want us to worry/waste our time with those things so He hasn’t revealed anything about it.

So I need to practice faith, in order to receive it? I'll not allow myself to fall into a trap, and let myself believe in something my emotions tell me should be. I would prefer to have all knowledge to what I am pledging myself, so that I may make informed decisions, instead of realizing only after I have committed myself that there were unintended promises, or decisions made.

That is the test of this life. In pre-mortal life we saw our Heavenly Father. We made choices some good some bad. We pasted that phase of the test. Now Heavenly Father wants to see if we can make correct choices by faith. Can we in a way trust in Him.

Its not easy! Its not made to be easy. Its made so we can overcome to natural man and in a way tune into our spirit that is inside us.

NOBODY has ever told me, how exactly the spirit affects you. Is it a certain muscle in the stomach that lets you know you've been contacted? Is it, an overly devine voice in your head that is clearly not your own? Is it a shaking, trembling experience? What am I supposed to feel? If you tell me I will know when it happens,

To add to that each of us is a little different. Some people feel the spirit even a little different. But we each learn to recognize that spirit in that way. I would say its more of a feel, not even something that goes through your sense but something that comes through your spirit that you feel. Its not something that you just automatically figure out. I think there are reasons for that. God wants to teach us, but also wants to see if we really want to know.

The reason being, if you want anything enough, and the only way you'll know it's happened is by an unexpected emotion, or feeling, then you are going to get it no matter what.

I disagree. When I came to know the book of mormon was true it wasn’t nothing big. It just felt right. No matter how much I tried to talk myself out of it, I couldn’t. My mind had come to believe the book of mormon was true. So there wasn’t one event that made me know it. But a bunch of small ones as I read it.
But when I wanted to know if Joseph Smith was a prophet and saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, I had to pray, no answer came. I kept praying because I wanted to know. The feel that I felt was something that covered my whole body. I never had experiences that feeling nor would I know how my body ever made that feeling. This is why I say it was more something happening to my spirit. I only felt it that strong once when I got that answer. Felt it in smaller degrees in a couple of other times. Once you feel the spirit its something you realize you can’t make up.

I don't need a vocal response from God, I need an understanding however. If I need to find this, by learning everything ahead of time, how is that any less effective, or sincere than blindly following the word of another person?

To fully understand the things of God you need the spirit to help teach you. Trying to undestand God with out God's help doesn't work. It leads people to confusion. God is always there, its a matter if we take the steps to come to Him!

I suggest you start where all of us have started! Reading the book of mormon and praying. Really go through the Journey with Nephi.
You can read the D& C also, but pray to ask if Joseph Smith is a true prophet, ask of he saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Ask with Faith Wanting to know the truth and the answers will come.

[qedd]

Originally Posted by Daermon

Please forgive me if I unknowingly post something that is considered taboo, or some kind of question that nobody asks because it's considered inappropriate, I mean no disrespect of any kind, and only wish to find some answers.

How would any of us learn if we don't ask questions?

I have not had contact with anyone from the church in a couple years, but some of the things I learned/discovered last time I did, still intrigue me, and I don't think I will ever be satisfied, or be able to move on until I find some decent answers. Please correct me if I am blatantly wrong, or don't have the complete truth, I ask based upon what I know, believe, or have been told.

When has anything of true worth come quick and easy? Patience and a steadfast resolve will ultimately reveal the truth to the sincere student.

I don't know if there are any rules regarding who can know what, or anything like that...

The only real rule (if you can call it that) is one of order and prudence for the sake of the student.

"For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have." -- 2 Nephi 28:30

"For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish." --D&C 19:22

"I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able." --1 Cor 3:2

Truth can not remain hidden from one who has eyes open to see it. Learning line upon line, precept upon precept is the process of awakening your understanding and opening your eyes to the truth.

...I don't think I will ever be satisfied, or be able to move on until I find some decent answers.

Obstinance and spiritual stagnation go hand-in-hand. Be open to the possibility that you may be asking the wrong questions at this time.

2. With religion, and especially in the LDS church, you are supposed to feel the spirit guiding you. You pray, and the spirit tells you. You're about to do something wrong, the spirit warns you. You need direction, the spirit guides you. NOBODY has ever told me, how exactly the spirit affects you. Is it a certain muscle in the stomach that lets you know you've been contacted? Is it, an overly devine voice in your head that is clearly not your own? Is it a shaking, trembling experience? What am I supposed to feel? If you tell me I will know when it happens, I'll not take that as a correct answer. The reason being, if you want anything enough, and the only way you'll know it's happened is by an unexpected emotion, or feeling, then you are going to get it no matter what. I'll not suddenly have a testimony because my stomach cramped while I was praying, or that I feel like I did something wrong when I sin.

Have you ever had an epiphany? An "aha!" moment? A moment of perfect clarity where the pieces to some puzzle seem to fit? Have you ever had moments of peace where you realize the decision you had just made was the right one?

Can you describe the sound of music to one who has never heard? Can you describe a sunset to one who has never seen? Please understand that you may be asking people to describe something that could be described as a sense in and of itself.

Take care.

[ztodd]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Shouldn't a "correct" answer do both?

Actually, no- not necessarily. God does not reveal answers to us just to satisfy our intellectual curiosity. In my opinion, we should be careful about doing so as well.

We are not to "cast pearls before swine" - meaning we should not bare everything before someone who is just looking for weird and unusual things to tell people about us. There is a reason we should give "milk before the meat". These are biblical priniciples, as well as just good sound life advice.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Daermon

Does anyone receive a vocal response?

Yes...

[anatess]

This is what happened to me:

I was not LDS yet. My husband is LDS. So, the missionaries/home teachers has been coming to my house. I take a discussion here and there but it always stops at the apostasy. I don't invite them back after that. I probably went through the discussions 6 times and always stops at the apostasy and no more.

Anyway, one day, my husband and I had this huge fight. I can't even remember what we were fighting about. I locked myself in the small bedroom in absolute dispair. Finally, I knelt down and prayed my very first sincer/heartfelt/personal prayer (before that, I always prayed using a prayer book - just read the prayer - or say the same Our Father, Hail Mary, that stuff)... this is my prayer: "God, Help Me.". That's it. My heart was racing, I can hear the drumbeat in my ears. And within a few minutes after I said those words, I kid you not, there's a knock on my front door. My husband opens the door (I can hear them clearly from the bedroom situated right off the hallway) and it was the missionaries. So my husband tells them, "This is really a very bad time. She is not going to be able to talk to you right now.". And one of the missionaries said, "I know we don't have an appointment, I don't know what it is, but we just had this impression that we had to come by here.". My husband knocked on the bedroom and asked me if I wanted to talk to the missionaries and I told him No, I don't need to. So they left.

It took me a few more years before I joined the church. But, ever since that day, I went through the entire discussions - past the apostasy. I'll tell you about my prayer experience about the apostasy some other time as it's not really relevant to this thread.

Anyway, after that, I have learned how the Spirit speaks to me. That heart-racing, drumbeat in my ears thing - I experience that everytime I prepare for a lesson or a talk. And like when I made a decision to buy another house - that was different - that was like a soft nagging in my ear. There are different ways I hear it, sometimes I don't recognize it until after I've made the mistake...

But, what I'm trying to say is... without that very first experience of falling to my knees and asking God to help me, I don't think I would have progressed enough to recognize the voice of the Spirit. And I found that after that first experience, recognizing the truth of the restored gospel was much easier. So yeah, from my experience, Faith starts it all...

[eponabri]

Yes, I have. But the response was for me alone and probably no one else would relate to it.

Originally Posted by Daermon

Does anyone receive a vocal response?