Law of Chastity- What does it mean?

[justbeforeeternity]

I agree that it's not the only solution, but I still think some men/boys drive themselves crazy trying not to, and then slip up. And then they beat themselves up and feel like there is no hope or like they can't ever live worthily. I know this, because my boyfriend struggles with this. I don't think it is something that should keep someone out of the temple, from getting married, from going on a mission, as long as pornography or thoughts of vulgar type acts like rape aren't involved. Some boys have even done that since they were like five! In fact, I have heard many who have. I feel like it's just one of those natural things that, while not the best way to solve intimate feelings, it happens.

In many cases, many boys/men who feel like hope is lost and lose their confidence, fall into inactivity.... it's really upsetting to me as a year long member, seeing this kind of thing happen.

[Misshalfway]

Yes. It probably does happen. I think that the behavior starts out innocently ..... even for girls. But the issue is who is guiding the horse. The horse or the rider - the man or his sex drive. The reason men battle with it is because the haven't learned the lessons of mastering. This is why indulgence isn't the answer because it creates difficult habits to break. And I am saying that while accepting that sometimes the process of learning the lesson takes time and patience with oneself.

The problem is that when a person is old enough to interview for the temple, they are not innocent curious little boys. They have usually been educated by parents, church or thru the spirit. They have been given the opportunity to master their passions. The Lord doesn't triffle with his eternal blessings, even if it is hard for his children to qualify for them.

Life is a hard deal. No one should feel shame because they struggle over time with certain aspects of it.

I have been studying the law of chastity lately as it was a lesson I had to teach. I am starting to suspect that everything about the gospel is centered on the family and the marriage relationship. Everything...even exhaltation. The best way for satan to ruin a family or wedge a marriage is thru breaking the law of chastity. I am even suspecting that part of the function of the WofW is to safeguard the law of chastity. Mastering the natural man in all of its forms is important for our preparations but I suspect it is thru the law of chastity that Satan is trying to tear us down. That may be one reason why so many of our best boys and men struggle. I don't believe the struggle is merely a natural biological one.

[FunkyTown]

Good questions!

It's silly to assume that, in a world as sex-centric as ours is, that nobody will get aroused. Because of this, I have a massive confession to make:

I am not Buddha.

It's true. I know, this sort of confession may shock people, but I'm really not. I'm tempted by sex, money and power. I get angry sometimes and there are times when I'm feeling lazy and the very last thing I want to do is the right thing.

And none of that has any bearing on my temple recommend.

That brings me to the two main points I wanted to address in your post:

1) The idea that you shouldn't be physically attracted to someone - This is not correct. There's nothing wrong with sex, or appreciating the beauty of the one you love. It's expected, even. What's wrong is when this steps over the line to lust, when you have reduced the other person to nothing more than a tool for your own pleasure. The natural order of things should be: Love -> Marriage -> Sex. When those are out of order, or some are missing entirely, people are hurt and our souls are lessened.

2) The idea that masturbation is a physical need. It is not. Many children, when teens, fall in to habits when their brains are still being developed that are just like any other addiction. Defeating something like that takes more than willpower. It takes faith, courage and the knowledge that if you fail, you just get back up and try again.

Don't lie to get a temple recommend. It isn't worth it. Instead, face your issues as best you can and overcome them with honesty and integrity.

Originally Posted by justbeforeeternity

I'm having trouble seeing how it is physically possible for a person to NEVER get aroused, especially a man. I am a female, but even I have intimate, passionate feelings toward my boyfriend. How can a girl know she is PHYSICALLY attracted to a man without feeling some sort of spark? If I touch a guys hand and feel nothing, I might as well be holding a stone. I spend eternity with a man that I can't be physically attracted to. I also have a hard time believing that any male missionary has gone a full year without masturbation. It's kind of like a biological need for men to do that every now and then right? I am asking seriously because I am having trouble seeing how anyone ever actually makes it to the temple without lying? This comment is not meant to be derogatory or negative, but a serious question and concern. I love the gospel, have been in the church for about a year and a half, but this is something so many young single adults can't get downpat. Why is it that a single though or touching oneself a single time makes you unworthy for the temple for an entire year? Isn't this what the atonement is for? I have heard stories of people who want so badly to be a faithful member, and it tortures them because they will slip up one time and feel terrible about themselves, talk to the bishop, and be asked to go an entire year. How is this even possible? It feels very cruel to me.

[Dravin]

I also have a hard time believing that any male missionary has gone a full year without masturbation.

Believe it, in fact make it the full 2 years of the mission, at least in one case, can't speak for others. Despite what the world might like to teach, masturbation is neither a necessity nor a forgone conclusion.

[bluedreams]

Originally Posted by justbeforeeternity

I'm having trouble seeing how it is physically possible for a person to NEVER get aroused, especially a man.

I honestly think it's not....maybe if you're assexual but those people are very rare. There's a statistic out there that says about 90-95% of men and 65-70% of women have masterbate from time to time. This is an average population statistic....so I'm not sure what it would be for men and women inside the church. But I assume its far above 0. Either way, to be arroused in som fashion is natural and though it can be controlled and guided, I honestly do not believe it can be completely dammed and dried out.

I also have a hard time believing that any male missionary has gone a full year without masturbation. It's kind of like a biological need for men to do that every now and then right?

It is possible. I have very frank conversations...vey very frank constantly. Friends easily open up to me about sexual matters and I'm very aware what men and women deal with when it comes with sexuality. This stated I also know there are men who did not masterbate at all on a mission. There is no biological need for men to masterbate.

I am asking seriously because I am having trouble seeing how anyone ever actually makes it to the temple without lying?

I'm about to do it in the next few months. It's very much possible to go without lying.

Why is it that a single though or touching oneself a single time makes you unworthy for the temple for an entire year? Isn't this what the atonement is for? I have heard stories of people who want so badly to be a faithful member, and it tortures them because they will slip up one time and feel terrible about themselves, talk to the bishop, and be asked to go an entire year. How is this even possible? It feels very cruel to me.

A single thought will not keep you from the temple. But repetitive masterbation will. It is possible to maintain control and learn to express sexuality within the proper limits for the temple. It isn't always easy, but it is certainly doable.

Feeling arousal is not the issue. It is just like any other emotion.

Misshalfway,
While I was reading this thread, I got the same impression from the tone of the posts (not yours imparticular). By the point I initially posted I was actually beginning to feel somewhat depressed by it. Probably not for the same reason JBE is worried, but for the overall manner by which we talk about this issue in the church....or really, don't talk about it.


With luv,
BD

[ryanh]

Originally Posted by justbeforeeternity

I'm having trouble seeing how it is physically possible for a person to NEVER get aroused, especially a man. I am a female, but even I have intimate, passionate feelings toward my boyfriend. How can a girl know she is PHYSICALLY attracted to a man without feeling some sort of spark? If I touch a guys hand and feel nothing, I might as well be holding a stone. I spend eternity with a man that I can't be physically attracted to.

It just may be that the form and manner of passions we feel are primarily a part of this life mortal life only. Think about it. Will single "angles" in heaven be tortured constantly by a drive? The feelings you are having towards your boyfriend are 'infatuation', and are a normal and planned part of drives put in us in order to perpetuate and bring all of God's children to earth. I sometimes joke (only partly joking) that were it not for the hormone processes that create infatuation, it is likely that there wouldn't be many marriages or babies. Men and women would just sit on opposite corners of the dance floor and never interact. Just some ramblings of personal thoughts, not anything doctrinal.

Then, the thought that does have some doctrinal underpinnings, which has already been said, but is worth repeating. This life is a time to grow, to develop, to learn how to be 'in control'. No it doesn't require us to be perfect at this time, but it does require that we try with all our might, and tame those things which are based in selfishness. Masturbation is about selfishness. And it CLEARLY can be tamed. Miss1/2’s analogy of the horse and rider is apt.

Originally Posted by justbeforeeternity

I also have a hard time believing that any male missionary has gone a full year without masturbation. It's kind of like a biological need for men to do that every now and then right? .

I'm having a hard time believing that the majority of missionaries are actually having a problem with this. Yep, served a mission. Have my own experience, and my companions' experiences to form my opinion on. Missionary service is about being selfless. If one is willing to set aside 2 years of their life, there is certainly not only an interest, but a drive to not be selfish.

Originally Posted by justbeforeeternity

This comment is not meant to be derogatory or negative, but a serious question and concern. I love the gospel, have been in the church for about a year and a half, but this is something so many young single adults can't get downpat. Why is it that a single though or touching oneself a single time makes you unworthy for the temple for an entire year?
. . .
I have heard stories of people who want so badly to be a faithful member, and it tortures them because they will slip up one time and feel terrible about themselves, talk to the bishop, and be asked to go an entire year. How is this even possible? It feels very cruel to me.

Humm. Never heard any idea that one thought could exclude a person from the temple for a year. Even with grosser sins, there is no set timeframe for exclusion from temple attendance. Each case is unique.
Might I suggest finding ways to quit focusing so much on, and talking so much with others about, the sexual habits of others - it sounds like you are being fed some misinformation.

Did you read the Of Souls, Symbols, and Sacraments talk linked to above?

Elder Holland gave a similar talk in general conference in 1998. Personal Purity Elder Jeffrey R. Holland

In approaching this subject I do not document a host of social ills for which the statistics are as grim as the examples are offensive. Nor will I present here a checklist of do’s and don’ts about dating and boy-girl relationships. What I wish to do is more personal—I wish to try to answer questions some of you may have been asking: Why should we be morally clean? Why is it such an important issue to God? Does the Church have to be so strict about it when others don’t seem to be? How could anything society exploits and glamorizes so openly be very sacred or serious?

May I begin with a lesson from civilization’s long, instructive story. Will and Ariel Durant have written: “No man [or woman], however brilliant or well-informed, can … safely … dismiss … the wisdom of [lessons learned] in the laboratory of history. A youth boiling with hormones will wonder why he should not give full freedom to his sexual desires; [but] if he is unchecked by custom, morals, or laws, he may ruin his life before he … understand[s] that sex is a river of fire that must be banked and cooled by a hundred restraints if it is not to consume in chaos both the individual and the group.” 2

A more important scriptural observation is offered by the writer of Proverbs: “Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned? … Whoso committeth adultery … destroyeth his own soul. A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.” 3

Why is this matter of sexual relationships so severe that fire is almost always the metaphor, with passion pictured vividly in flames? What is there in the potentially hurtful heat of this that leaves one’s soul—or the whole world, for that matter—destroyed if that flame is left unchecked and those passions unrestrained? What is there in all of this that prompts Alma to warn his son Corianton that sexual transgression is “an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?” 4

By assigning such seriousness to a physical appetite so universally bestowed, what is God trying to tell us about its place in His plan for all men and women? I submit to you He is doing precisely that—commenting about the very plan of life itself.

[firewater49]

Ok, so here is my thing regarding masturbation.

First off, I am 16 years old. I have been a member of the church my entire life and have always strived to live The Gospel. About 5 months I had my first encounter with Masturbation. I have heard many others "discovered" this much young than me. I don't why I never found out about it, but here's the deal, when I didn't know it existed I was never tempted to do it and while I was often aroused, I just never did anything about it.

ANYWAYS: After the first time, I felt absolutely terrible, like I had betrayed my entire body, life, and my Heavenly Father. As time went on I often thought well, "One more time surely can't hurt". By the time this had been going on for several months I thought, "Well everbody does it. Even LDS youth. I also remember a quote from President Hinckley "No young man should be called on a mission who is not freed from this practice". Many times I would justify my practice by thinking, "Well I can fix this by the time I go on my mission. Or I'll do this another month or two then I am done." For a while I didn't even consider it wrong. By this time, (About 2 months after the start still regular) I was losing interest in Church, It was just something I did to please my parents and so everbody (Most people regarded me as a very upstanding youth) would think I am doing good as ever.

When finally I realized, "What Happened to the old me?". I used to love going to Church (not anymore), I hadn't felt the Spirit in Months, and my personal prayer was terrible, I prayed just because I thought it was, "proper". So then I decided I had to look for something to prove it was wrong. I knew Pornography was wrong I never looked at it - ever - and wanted nothing to do with it because the Prophets spoke out against it. I rationalized that if I could find something that made me know masturbation was wrong I would never do it again. Lds.org search... nothing... Lds.net search... little... mostly for married couples. That is when I realized every little thing cannot be discussed and defined as what is "wrong" and what is not.

HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE: "If you can't feel the spirit while your doing it, or afterwards, it is wrong."

THAT WAS ENOUGH TO CONVINCE ME. I gave it up. And do not miss it. Since letting it go I feel the spirit once more, enjoy going to Church, and feel hope again.Now, that's not to say I still don't get aroused, in this modern world I fear everybody does. I draw the line where I can or cannot feel the spirit. I joy in thinking of when I am married and will be able to have a family

For those trying to quit: It is the one week mark man. Just like a bad itch if you don't itch it, it will go away. For me once I made the week mark the temptation was gone. THERE IS HOPE! you can change!

Yeah, so I don't know if anybody actually read that... But it is wrong! No doubt about it, it is detrimental to spirituality and I wish I never had anything to do with it.

EDIT: Excuse Me, When I said, "The Temptation was gone." That was incorrect. Temptation will always be there. More like, "The Will to do it was gone."

[lost87]

Originally Posted by firewater49

Ok, so here is my thing regarding masturbation.



ANYWAYS: After the first time, I felt absolutely terrible, like I had betrayed my entire body, life, and my Heavenly Father. As time went on I often thought well, "One more time surely can't hurt". By the time this had been going on for several months I thought, "Well everbody does it. Even LDS youth. I also remember a quote from President Hinckley "No young man should be called on a mission who is not freed from this practice". Many times I would justify my practice by thinking, "Well I can fix this by the time I go on my mission. Or I'll do this another month or two then I am done." For a while I didn't even consider it wrong. By this time, (About 2 months after the start still regular) I was losing interest in Church, It was just something I did to please my parents and so everbody (Most people regarded me as a very upstanding youth) would think I am doing good as ever.

This progression is soooooo true! something that you rationalize as a simple little "no big deal" completely destroys your faith and devotion...good to know that its something that can be rebuilt though, thanks firewater.

And I've read through this whole thing...for clarification....is it true that after a slip regarding the law of chastity (whether it be masturbation or sex, either way) you will need to wait a year to go to the temple?

[firewater49]

I totally know what you mean lost! And also I just found this quote on the Church website,

"Masturbation is not physically necessary. There is already a way by which the male system relieves excessive spermatic fluid quite regularly through the nocturnal emission or wet dream. Monthly menstrual flow expels the female’s egg and cleanses the womb. For both sexes, physical or emotional tensions can be released by vigorous activity. Thus, in a biological sense, masturbation for either gender is not necessary. In a gospel sense, it is a sin: “Masturbation, a rather common indiscretion, is not approved of the Lord nor of His Church regardless of what may have been said by others whose ‘norms’ are lower. Latter-day Saints are urged to avoid this practice” (Spencer W. Kimball, Love Versus Lust, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year [Provo, 5 Jan. 1965], p. 22)."

So no, it is not a "biological need" for males to masturbate.

[Karl_Withakay]

Originally Posted by Tarnished

Even friendships can be dangerous. My parents always lived by the rule of only having friends who were of the same sex. So my dad would have male friends and my mom would have female friends. Keeping your friendships gender based keeps you from problems. Also, make a point once you are married to never be alone with someone of the opposite sex (other than your spouse) don't even give yourself the opportunity for something to go wrong.

I know i'm not LDS but I don't get this. I'm a musician. A singer/songwriter and guitarist. I was doing a duo thing with a female singer/songwriter. I would go to her house while her husband was at work and we would play MUSIC. That's all. We never embraced, kissed or anything else. I never had an impure thought about her either. Her husband new of this. He trusted his wife and he trusted me. Both of them are devout LDS too. She did mention to me that she didn't want her mother to know about it because she would flip out on her a bit.

I used to have a female friend who was a recovering drug addict. After she got out of rehab, the times when she was alone were the times she wanted to fall off the wagon. She was married. Her husband knew that I was the only friend she had where he didn't have to worry about me bringing drugs into the house. He had no problem with me being there when he was at work. The whole town (small town) thought we were messing around but he knew the truth and it didn't bother him. Point was, her and I had MUSIC in common. That's what brought us together as friends. I love her dearly like a sister and she's very pretty. But as much as I love her, she's not my type and i'm not her's. Contrary to popular belief, a hetero sexual man and woman can be in the same room together alone and spend a lot of time alone together without ripping each other's clothes off and doing something impure. Just my two cents.


Karl