Struggling with faith.

[Azriel]

2 years, 11 months and 1 day ago I was baptized.

Last year I felt the strong desire to move out of my parent's house and try to make my own way in the world. I was able to move out to Utah in June of last year.

I made it 6 weeks. A combination of meds that wasn't working, depression (including suicidal thoughts), lack of employment, and what turned out to be a horrific room mate all worked against me. On incredibly short notice my father came to get me and I moved in with him and my brothers. (Before all this I was living with mom and stepdad.)

I lived there for a few months, until just after my 21st birthday.

My older brother and I did not get along, and I felt like nothing more than a nuisance and a source of income for my father. After a fight with my older brother (physical) and then with my father (verbal) I called my mom and went back home.

During the time at my father's I made it to church no more than 3 times. I hated going alone.

I was at my mom's for only days before I went on a vacation to visit the girl I'd fallen in love with (I'd been in touch with her since than March.) I stayed with her and her family for a full month, and then her parents offered to let me move in. So I did.

In the household, her mom, her little sister, her, and myself are LDS. Her father is not.

After moving I went to church about 90% of the time. Being in a small branch, I was called as Branch Mission Leader. I was really excited about the calling.

I worked with the Sister Missionaries and the branch missionaries (both sisters). I tried to give direction and tried to get reports from them, but I ended up feeling like I was wasting my time and resources. Nothing got done.

In August I gave the Sisters a ride to one of their district meetings, 2 hours from their apartment, which is half an hour from where I live. On our way back my car broke down. My car which I hadn't yet started paying my girlfriend's dad for. $1200 of scrap, and debt, acquired while trying to do the right thing for the Missionaries.

I felt betrayed by God. That coupled with job issues, financial issues, and other issues with church... everything seemed to be going wrong for me. It was the last straw. I've not had much to do with my calling since. I show up for Sacrament about once a month, usually only staying for the first block.

I know that good came out of the old car breaking down. I was able to get a nicer one that I feel much safer driving. But I can't shake that hurt I feel.


Then, during one Sacrament, a brother from the Stake said something about correctly addressed prayers. He said he would catch people praying to "Lord" or "Christ" instead of Heavenly Father. This upset me. I realized I often prayed, after an opening of "God/Heavenly Father/Father/etc.," to "Lord" instead, and I'd be thinking of Christ, not Heavenly Father.

It hit me very suddenly that I did not know my Heavenly Father. I knew Christ. I could talk to Christ. I'd learned so much about him at church and from study and prayer. But I did not know Heavenly Father. I knew He was the Father, of Christ, of us all. But beyond that...

I was distraught. Since then I have had revelation that He is the one who protects me. He keeps me from danger, and keeps accidents from being worse. I know that's Him. But beyond that... I don't have a relationship with Him, and I don't know how to get one. Prayer hasn't helped.

I've stopped feeling the Spirit when I do attend church. I don't get very much out of the meetings. When I pray, most of the time I don't feel anything from it.

I know I don't pray enough. I don't study my scriptures. I don't even crack them open. I haven't felt comfortable enough to give Priesthood blessings in months. I feel that I can't feel the Spirit right now. I don't feel as if I'm a member of the branch. No one contacts me.

This is very hard for me. My faith is broken, dwindling, yet my testimony is intact.


I can't stop thinking about the future. Getting my cars (new and dead) paid off. Going to school. Marrying my babe. Becoming a father.

But those last two won't be good enough unless my family is eternal. Unless I can bring the Priesthood into my home to bless those I love the dearest.

I don't feel like I'm ready for that, spiritually. Nor do I feel that I'm on the proper track towards it. And I don't know how to get onto that track.

Yes, I know I should pray and attend church... But I'm tired of the empty feeling. I don't have the endurance for that. The Spirit is not there, and I can't bear that. I know He SHOULD be there, and He's not anymore.

My spiritual "muscles" have atrophied. What used to be a small step is now beyond my reach. I pray about once a day, in my head, to get home safely from work (and to work safely.) Sometimes that is difficult me. It's my baby step, but I feel like I'm getting nowhere.


The Sister missionaries have since been replaced by Elders. They've come to visit the family a few times, but not me. I heard that they're "disappointed" in me, yet I've had no outreach from anyone in the branch, they included. I still feel very much like a recent convert struggling with brand new faith. I feel very many expectations from church and people at church, but I don't feel like I get anything back (temporal or spiritual). It feels like God and His people just want things OF me, not FOR me.

Because of my age I have to deal with church members pestering me about going on a mission. I'm not going to. I don't want to. And by now I'm so sick of people trying to explain to me how it'd be good for me, or seeing the judgment in their eyes when I say it's not happening, that bringing it up just alienates me further.

I'm completely out of sorts. I've tried to pray to Heavenly Father for help... But I don't know what to ask Him. I've broken down in tears telling Him as much.



I'm sorry for the jumbled presentation. I'm exhausted (I work overnights now). But my thoughts on all of this are jumbled, anyway. I just can't comprehend what's wrong right now. I can think of all the different things that bother me, but not one, nor all of them seem to be the root of the discord in my soul.


So, I ask for help. I don't know what kind. I don't know what advice to ask for. But I'm listening.


-Vision of Lehi

[just_ashley]

i know exactly how you feel! i've been in the church forever, and have recently been struggling a lot. through a horrible combination of circumstances, i've had to move back in with my parents-after being on my own for 6 years. i, too, have often felt empty and betrayed by god. i mean, my rationale went, if i'm doing what's right, life should be easy, right?
but what i've recently learned is that god gives times of growing and stretching. once we learn what he wants us to, he tests us. he's not abandoning us, we're abandoning him. it's like we're saying 'well, god, i've done my part, give me blessings!'
you say you want to have children. that's awesome. but when you do, will you just give them whatever they want and go out of your way to make sure things are easy for them and that they don't get hurt? of course not. because being hurt, and picking yourself up is part of the experience. i think what i tend to forget is that god is a perfect version of a mortal father. he knows what's best for us. and sometimes struggling is the wisest course of action. it actually turns out that people value the most what they have to work for. would a promotion mean as much if you were just randomly selected in a lottery, as opposed to working day and night for it?
i guess what my jumbled up message is trying to say is that, while things are bad, keep trying. i've tried punishing god by not going to church, reading my scriptures, or praying. and it only hurts me. even though you may not feel the spirit, or feel like god is there, he is! my mum used to tell me (about being nice to others) fake it until you feel it. sometimes that's what you have to do in the gospel. pray, read, go, even if it feels like you're wasting your time. you won't be.
and as for feeling like you have dissappointed everybody, you haven't. because you're concerned about it shows that you care. and i'm sure god is pleased that you haven't given up all the way. but perhaps you should talk to your bishop and the missionaries, maybe even the people that you are staying with. see if they can offer advice, or at least compassion. tell them how you feel. i realize that's a very unmanly thing to do. :P but sometimes people give offense without realizing. i think a blessing would help you, too.
well, i hope that helps a little bit. all i can say is that i will pray for you, and hopefully you pray for yourself. good luck!

[Misshalfway]

Azriel. Thank you for sharing your experience. I don't know if anything I say will help. But I will give you the best I got.

First of all, you are no alone in your feelings that God may have betrayed you OR that your prayers don't feel heard or answered. You end your remarks with "Vision of Lehi" which I think just might be important. Remember the vision of the Tree of Life and the rod of iron and the faithful who are holding onto that rod? Remember the midsts of darkness? Well, I think that sometimes the midst of darkness come to everyone and that is why we need to rod to help us stay on the path.

Understanding God and why He does what He does has been a journey for me. I mean why doesn't He answer immediately when I call, especially when I am desperate for help or some form of direction or comfort? What is it about that circumstance that might be good for me? cuz it sure as heck doesn't feel good. I think the answer, for me at least, is three fold.

First, the trial helps me to develop faith and trust in all three members of the Godhead. Faith isn't demonstatrated when the way is lit. It is developed inside the darkness and faith itself lights the way until God meets us on the other side. And until the light comes, you lean on your faith! Even the weakest expression of faith can squash darkness and doubt enough to keep you going in the right direction.

Second, I think God is trying to get us to learn to trust ourselves. Now why would he do that when he knows we are all fallen and weak and he knows how impossible some trials are? He must know more about our capacities than we do. And he must know that there is a process that helps develop those capacities and if he interferes with the process too early or too often that his will for our happiness and development would be frustrated. It's about spiritual self reliance and individual progression and lots and lots of practice. Father is always there watching, supervising, commanding, and blessing. But sometimes its more about the journey itself and the end results of our efforts coupled with his. And often we can't see or understand it all clearly until we do look back.

Third, I believe that trials are our teachers. They sometimes feel like betrayals or mean tricks or tormentors. Adam and Eve were told that the earth would be cursed "for their sakes". God's message to them is essentially his message to each one of us. This world is filled with weeds and briars, broken down cars and burned down houses and desolation inside of our hearts. And its all for our good. How can that be that deep wounds are blessings? They are blessings because they teach us how to love and open the door for God and Jesus to reveal their arm of power and healing and salvation to us. We are so short sighted. We want comfort and we want it now! It's like my children. Sometimes I can't run and save them. Doing so would hurt them. They must learn that fire burns and that they can help themselves. And so I wait for when I can intervene with love and direction and empathy.

Az, you hang onto that rod of iron! Don't believe Satan when he whispers into your heart that God is too busy or not powerful enough or that He doesn't care! Go the distance in obedience THROUGH the midsts of darkness. The rod DOES lead to the tree and the tree IS the love of God. And learning to endure all things is what helps us develop those all important attributes of faith, hope and charity.

Blessings to you. Don't let the darkness get you down. Accept it as part of the earth life deal. And change the way you look at your life. God is there. The scriptures are powerful and do teach and help and strengthen. Read and pray no matter what. And I promise that somehow you will see God help your life along. It isn't what happens to us that really matters. It's what we do with what happens to us. Put your focus into the later and don't forget to count your blessings and laugh at yourself. No need to take it all to seriously.

[Azriel]

I know God still has a hand in my life. When all I could afford was a $5 tithe a few weeks ago, I gave it because I wanted a new shift at work.

That Thursday following I had it. Someone else was fired rather unexpectedly and I moved into their spot.

I know that I've avoided the illnesses going around the area (h1n1 and URIs) because I've been following the Word of Wisdom, despite being tempted not to more than any other time in my life. (Being tempted at all is brand new to me.)

I don't feel like I've disappointed anyone at church. I feel like they expect things from me that I'm not in the mind, heart, or mood to give.


At my last job I was dealing with so much stress that I was developing an ulcer. I went to church when I didn't work Sundays. I paid my tithing (which is how I managed to get my current job.) But I got nothing from it. I didn't have enough money for food, for medicine. The stress made not only my digestive system suffer, but every joint constantly ached. Some days I could barely flex my hands.

I was dealing with more than I could emotionally and mentally cope with and was suffering physically because of it. I was beyond my limits. I didn't want blessings, I just didn't want to have to run faster than I was able to.

I know growth comes from struggle, and we get placed in tough situations for our own good... But this did not feel like a trial to overcome. It felt like I was being made to run faster than I had strength. I did not grow from it. I was injured by it. The situation has passed. I've reflected on it... I gained nothing from it. And if it can only be understood from an eternal perspective, then I call bull on God. I know He sees eternally, but He also knows we only see mortally.

"Eternal perspective" is insensitive.

[Azriel]

Thanks for the replies. I've got some outside work to get done today, and I'd rather do it before I sleep. I'll try checking back in later tonight. I appreciate any comments.

If I sound upset at all, it's not at any of the posters. It's just a reflection of my feelings towards my faith right now.

[Misshalfway]

Yeah. I hear you. I know all about trials that were too heavy and midnights that lasted way too long. Honey....there is a lesson for you to learn inside this experience. There is a lesson in your very post...inside your very words! And its up to you to find it. I can only guess what that might be.

Maybe the answer is that you don't have to acheive anything or win any races. Just showing up might be enough. Maybe your test is learning how not to control the outcomes of things or not to allow the outcomes of things to disrupt your view of yourself. Or maybe there is something about your emotional reactions that God is trying to get you to examine. I can't know really, but I believe you know inside your heart. It's just a matter of having the fortitude to find it. And it may take years or minutes before the lesson is learned.


Maybe the eternal perspective is insensitive. Or maybe its just not codependant.


BTW....its ok to be angry about it.

[WmLee]

Ditto with what Miss wrote. Let's keep in mind that we are all here with our agency. I personally do not believe that my loving Heavenly Father wishes or in any way makes bad things happen to me or anyone else. I believe the destroyer and master liar can influence or lead others to do things that can make our lives miserable. I also believe that the Spirit, sent by my Father in Heaven can soften hearts and open doorways for me, IF I hold to the rod and humble myself in prayer.
Does He always give me what I want when I want it? Nop! Does he often send others to help when I need it most? Yep. Do I always recognize those people when they arrive? Nop!
Be humble, pray and when you don’t think or feel you’ve been heard remember it’s not time to quit and get off your knees. It’s time to pray longer and give thanks for everything you have. Then, always remember it is the “still, small voice” that answers. So listen!

[pam]

I'm completely out of sorts. I've tried to pray to Heavenly Father for help... But I don't know what to ask Him. I've broken down in tears telling Him as much.

I think that is important right there. Even letting our Heavenly Father know we need help in what or how to ask is a step towards asking and allowing Him to help.

[Orangeshift]

Dear Azriel-

I am so glad you paid your tithing! Good for you!

Please don't think that bad circumstances won't get you down. They will! The worse they are, the worse they feel. That's the human condition.

Getting close to God, despite all conditions-- that is the path to Godliness, which is after all the entire purpose of the Restoration of the Gospel. Getting close to God is what feels good in this whole mess of things that feel bad.

Your depression will work against you. It will separate you from the Spirit sometimes. I have the same. MANY people suffer this way. President Hinckley called it the plague of our generation. Whatever biochemistry exists between us and our food and environment has been messed with in the last days and many people suffer.

But that doesn't mean you can't feel God's presence. You will get revelation from time to time, as you are obedient. You will get that expression of love, too. In fact I would be very surprised if you did not get more than your share of spiritual experiences, and I would be very surprised if those experiences did not end up being extremely powerful-- far above what others might experience around you. I can't explain this, but I have seen it time and time again with people who suffer depression. You will probably always suffer the emotional pain that comes from depression, but you will also experience the rebirth...if this is what you truly wish for, truly desire with all your heart.

Get yourself to the Temple, if you can. Don't let anything stand in your way. In the Temple you can feel closer to the Spirit of God, and even to Jesus Christ. There you will see the truth-- that it is Jesus Christ Himself who introduces you to the Father. Getting your introduction to the Father is something that seldom happens while in this life, but happens to all the faithful eventually, whether here or in the next world. Getting to know Jesus is the key, He is the gate and passage way to the Father.

I, too, have realized that even though I addressed the Father in my prayers, it was the Savior who was allowed to answer them for me. I think this is the correct way, I believe it is also what the General Authorities experience, for their testimonies ring out with love and affection for the Savior. They can truly say they know Him, and how else could this have happened save they'd learned of Him through their prayers? We address the Father when we pray, but Christ it is who frequently is able to converse back to us. Perhaps it has something to do with his place as mediator between us and the Father. I don't know. But I agree with you-- this does seem to be the way it actually takes place when we pray.

Don't let members in your ward teach you false principles. Carefully make your way, and let the spirit be your guide. Church members can be wrong sometimes. Study it out, get some more opinions, pray your way through it. Azriel you will be completely fine. You will be great, better than fine. Trust yourself, and don't be afraid to get it wrong sometimes. That's ok, too.

No worries. God already knows it will work out. Keep at it! He called you out of the world for a reason. All you have to do is keep striving to learn what that was. You were not put into this world to fail. Never forget that. Pain is part of the experience, sadly enough, as is loss and hardship. But even pain can be lifted, through Jesus Christ. His love (the "fruit" spoken of by Lehi) is glorious and sweet. It never runs out. Come to the tree and partake.

Kind regards-
Orangeshift

PS- anti-depressants can also sometimes skew your reception of the spirit. Just something to be aware of as you pray. If you're not getting a lot of input from the spirit daily, you might have to try several times, over a period of days or even weeks, to get really important answers. Sometimes the drugs can mute the spirit, leave a feeling of deadness in the person. I can't tell you what action to take for this. It can be deadly to go off the medications, for some people. I can only suggest you be aware that this happens, and recommend you ask the Father for direction, and possibly also ask your Bishop for priesthood blessings. Fasting, if you get into a pinch, is also particularly powerful. Fasting can shake off the shackles with nothing else can. Fasting for two days instead of one can sometimes be good, too, if you're healthy and able. Just a thought.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by Azriel

...In August I gave the Sisters a ride to one of their district meetings, 2 hours from their apartment, which is half an hour from where I live. On our way back my car broke down. My car which I hadn't yet started paying my girlfriend's dad for. $1200 of scrap, and debt, acquired while trying to do the right thing for the Missionaries.

I felt betrayed by God. That coupled with job issues, financial issues, and other issues with church... everything seemed to be going wrong for me...I can't shake that hurt I feel.

...I've stopped feeling the Spirit when I do attend church. I don't get very much out of the meetings. When I pray, most of the time I don't feel anything from it.

...This is very hard for me. My faith is broken, dwindling, yet my testimony is intact.

...I don't feel like I'm ready for that, spiritually. Nor do I feel that I'm on the proper track towards it. And I don't know how to get onto that track...I'm tired of the empty feeling. I don't have the endurance for that.

...So, I ask for help. I don't know what kind. I don't know what advice to ask for. But I'm listening.

My friend,

Here, in this life, we have no abiding kingdom (as Hugh Nibley was fond of saying). All is dust and vanity. When you depend upon God, as you have been trying to do, you do not build up treasures on earth, "where moth and rust doth corrupt", but for the eternities.

That does not mean that you can't enjoy the blessings of eternity right now. You can. But you need to understand what our life is for, and what it means to join God's kingdom. An early LDS poet, Eliza Snow, wrote the following:

Think not, when you gather to Zion, your troubles and trials are through,
That nothing but comfort and pleasure are waiting in Zion for you:
No, no, 'tis designed as a furnace, all substance, all textures to try,
To burn all the "wood, hay, and stubble," the gold from the dross purify.

Think not, when you gather to Zion, that all will be holy and pure;
That fraud and deception are banished, and confidence wholly secure:
No, no, for the Lord our Redeemer has said that the tares with the wheat
Must grow till the great day of burning shall render the harvest complete.

Think not, when you gather to Zion, the Saints here have nothing to do
But to look to your personal welfare, and always be comforting you.
No; those who are faithful are doing what they find to do with their might;
To gather the scattered of Israel they labor by day and by night.

Think not, when you gather to Zion, the prize and the victory won.
Think not that the warfare is ended, the work of salvation is done.
No, no; for the great prince of darkness a tenfold exertion will make,
When he sees you go to the fountain, where freely the truth you may take.

When the apostle Peter wrote to the Saints in Asia Minor, he was addressing men and women who were being threatened with death for being Christians. His advice was telling:

For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. (1 Peter 2:20)

You are passing through trials for a reason: God wants to make of you a man fit to rule in the eternities, fit to endow with power from on high, fit to be a true husband to a woman and a true father to children. Now is the time to learn to be strong! Don't despair! We're all on the journey with you. Let your quorum brothers and ward family help you on that journey. Immerse yourself in the Church, and you are likely to find the way easier -- not because the trials have gotten easier, but because you have become stronger, and because you have brothers and sisters to help share the burden.