Hi, I have a problem, maybe you can help. (forgive me, it's long)

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Karl_Withakay

But she honestly feels that the church (via the Blessing) doesn't want her to be with me. I'm not perfect, none of us are. But I do my best to be a good Christian.

I'm not as acquainted with the bible as I once was but doesn't it say somewhere as far as tithing goes that if one cannot give from their heart (if they feel stressed because of giving), then they shouldn't give. My wife has less than $700 a month coming in and is expected to give 10% of that to the church. She can't afford it. She gives about $10 a month. Well her Bishop sat her down and had the 10% talk with her and said a lot of things that made her feel OBLIGATED to give a full 10%. I don't want to but I'm giving up. I told her that if we divorce, I'm done with her. This isn't what I want. I've prayed but she's slipping away.

Karl

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Karl:

On account of your wife's mental illness, it may be safe to assume that her thinking, interpretation of events and overall line of reasoning may be quite skewed. As stated before, No Bishop in the Church will advise anyone to divorce, ever. We take issues of personal safety and abusevery seriously but will not advise divorce.

You should realize that the real issues do not relate to Church or religion. The relationship has been unstable from the begining due to the issues discussed above and that will remain the primary challenge.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by Karl_Withakay

I'm not LDS. I was raised Baptist in upstate, NY. My wife however is LDS. Now I DO believe in God but I'm not all that crazy about church. In my 41 years, I've seen many "Sunday Christians". They walk the walk and talk the talk on Sunday and Monday through Saturday, they're back to their blasphemous behavior. Churches (LDS, Baptists, Methodist, and Catholic churches) have always rubbed me the wrong way. I'll be judged on judgment day, I don't need to be judged by my reverend, priest, or bishop.

My wife is younger (25 y/o). She was diagnosed with Schizophrenia about a year after we were married. She collects disability now. She has incredible anger problem. Frankly, she's more bi-polar than schiz. Well back in July, she told me (yelling 2" from my face) that she was glad my mother died. (diagnosed with Alzheimer's at 44 and died at 52 at 53 pounds) I pinned her. She's on warafin to thin her blood because she had blood clots in her lungs. So she bruises easy. Anyway, I ended up putting a small bruise on her arm and I was arrested. I understand why I was arrested and take responsibility for what I did. My wife moved out September 1st. Not because of my arrest, but because she can't stand her and I living with her grandfather. We were living apart but working on our marriage. Since the incident on the beginning of July when I was arrested, she has yelled, and screamed at times but I have never even come close to putting my hands on her.

Anyway because I was still seeing her every day, and taking her to all her appointments and taking her shopping etc, she was paying for gas a lot of the time and about $55 a month for car insurance. Today I get an email that says, "My Bishop showed me that my tithing is my first priority. That's why it is no longer possible for me to pay for your truck insurance". Then she goes on to say she wants a divorce on religious differences. She goes on to say, "My Patriarchal Blessing states that "at the proper time a priesthood holder will seek your hand in marriage. He will take you to the temple, there to be sealed for time for all eternity. Children will be born into your family. I bless you to be a good wife and mother". Then she goes on to say, "You are NOT A PRIESTHOOD HOLDER IN THE MORMON CHURCH AND YOU WILL NEVER GO TO THE TEMPLE; THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT THE RIGHT MAN FOR ME. LETS BOTH END THIS MARRIAGE ON CIVIL TERMS."

Is this what the LDS church advocates? Honestly, does the LDS church think I'm not worthy of being with an LDS woman because (even though I'm saved), I'm not LDS???

I take my marriage vows very seriously. I don't believe in giving up on a marriage unless EVERYTHING has been tried to work it out. Over the years, she has cheated on me twice, she has threatened to hurt me in my sleep, she has put bruises on me and she calls herself a good Mormon. And I have always been the one working hard to keep it together. I don't want to give up on her but what choice to I have? I feel like the LDS Church tore us apart.


Karl


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Karl, here is my advice - take it for what it is worth.

Contact her Bishop.

Sit down and talk with him privately about your take on this, how it is affecting you, your experiences. Find out if there is a way that you and your wife can go to the LDS Social Services where she can get Gospel Oriented counseling (as well as you).

Pick up a copy of the Book Living a Covenant Marriage.

Pray, Fast, read Scriptures (including the Book of Mormon). Invite her to pray with you, confess to her your inadequacies.

Believe it or not, as negatively as she has communicated to you, she is also expressing her deep rooted emotions and feelings, albeit the wrong way, she is expressing them as best as she knows how.

From what you have posted, here is what I am taking from it:

1) She wants to be married and sealed in the Temple.

2) She wants a united family with all its blessings and she wants to be active in the Church as well as in the Home

3) She wants a husband who is worthy to hold and administer the particular blessings of the Priesthood.

Again, granted she is throwing her patriachal blessing in your face in such a way as you are describing, these are her feelings and her emotions. They are very real and valid emotions.

Sit down with her when she is calm, ask her what she expects of you. Ask her what she is truly wanting to do to make this work. If she wants you to join the Church, become a worthy Priesthood holder, this will take time, she has to be very open and understanding of this fact as you are open and understanding of hers.

From a more personal experience -

I attacked the Church, I had left the Church and then I found a wonderful lady whom I am married to. We were living together. I never thought I would come back to the Church. My wife consistently expressed to me "what would you do if I started going back to church?" Her home teachers and visiting teachers came back.

Now, I am back in the Church, doing what I need to do to get myself to hold the priesthood and to be a worthy priesthood holder. There is still alot of work.

Here are the benefits that a worthy Priesthood holder can do that blesses his wife and his family.

He can give her blessings of comfort. The wife looks to her husband for guidance, for support, for stability, security, strength, and direction. He is the priesthood holder of the home. He receives revelation for his family.

Here is where dual perspective comes into play. Think about how you feel if you were in her shoes? What are you communicating to her verbally and nonverbally that would give her reason to be antagonistic towards you?

Marriage counseling works, but it will work if both agree to do what they need to do to reconcile.

If and only if you have done every thing you possibly could do, and she is unwilling and goes through the proceedings of the divorce, then that decision, that moral agency of hers is what she will be held accountable for and it will be upon her own head. You will not be judged or condemned in any way for neglecting your duties as a husband.

Also, in the event she moves forward with the divorce, it is her own decision, not something that her Bishop instructed her to do, not something that the Church teaches, it is because she is making her decision on her own, whether it is the right or wrong decision. In this instance, do not blame the Church for the divorce (like so many people do), it is the individual who is to blame.

[beefche]

You are poo-pooing her diagnosis of schizophrenia. My sister has SZ and I'm her primary caregiver. Some things you must understand about SZ:

1. reality is whatever the SZ person thinks it is. She can tell you that her bishop told her to marry a green alien from the planet Xrsnx, and she would not be lying--in her mind it is the absolute truth.
2. oftentimes what the SZ person hears is not what was said. She may have told her bishop that her patriarchal blessing says I'll marry a priesthood holder and he simply nodded his head. She then took that to mean she must divorce you and honestly believes that he actually said the words.
3. a SZ person MUST be on medications and receive therapy. It is possible that one can go without meds, but it is so unlikely and so detrimental that they should really just accept that they will be on meds.
4. SZ people often have bi-polar or other mental disorders. Also, SZ people are typically extremely intelligent.

I don't have any advice regarding your marriage other than suggesting that both of you see a marriage counselor. Since you want to remain married to her, I would also suggest that you find out more about schizo so you know how to manage it as a loved one. Try going to schizophrenia.com or check out nami.org (they offer free classes in your area to educate you on how to live with/work with a SZ loved one). Good luck.

[Karl_Withakay]

Originally Posted by beefche

You are poo-pooing her diagnosis of schizophrenia. My sister has SZ and I'm her primary caregiver. Some things you must understand about SZ:

1. reality is whatever the SZ person thinks it is. She can tell you that her bishop told her to marry a green alien from the planet Xrsnx, and she would not be lying--in her mind it is the absolute truth.
2. oftentimes what the SZ person hears is not what was said. She may have told her bishop that her patriarchal blessing says I'll marry a priesthood holder and he simply nodded his head. She then took that to mean she must divorce you and honestly believes that he actually said the words.
3. a SZ person MUST be on medications and receive therapy. It is possible that one can go without meds, but it is so unlikely and so detrimental that they should really just accept that they will be on meds.
4. SZ people often have bi-polar or other mental disorders. Also, SZ people are typically extremely intelligent.

I don't have any advice regarding your marriage other than suggesting that both of you see a marriage counselor. Since you want to remain married to her, I would also suggest that you find out more about schizo so you know how to manage it as a loved one. Try going to schizophrenia.com or check out nami.org (they offer free classes in your area to educate you on how to live with/work with a SZ loved one). Good luck.

Hi beefche,

I'll tell you a bit about my background. I worked as a mental heath tech for about 5 years. I was about 1 month shy of graduating LPN school when I had to drop out because of medical reasons. I worked with developmentally disabled violent adults for a number of years as well as a resident house with mentally ill residents. I'm very familiar with NAMI and have been to many classes with and without my wife. She has lost most of her friends because most people think Schiz and they think of the schiz people in the news who throw their kids off a bridge because of voices. Her friends get freaked out. Point being, i'm not Psychiatrist or Psychologist but I'm far more educated on mental illness than the average person. I'm familiar with the treatments, the meds, the diagnosis, the types, etc. That's likely the reason why I've been able to put up with her for as long as I have. (we've been married since December 06 and together since December 05). Go ahead and read some of my mental health articles here. I tend to be more understanding but she doesn't cooperate with her treatment plan. I can't make her tell the doctor what's going on and since my arrest, (from what she says), he won't see her with me anymore and doesn't want me anywhere near his office. Not sure if that's true or not but I tend to have no respect for people who talk bad behind my back but smile to my face. I'm the longest relationship my wife has ever been in.

Thanks

Karl

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My Published Articles

[beefche]

I'm glad to hear that you are aware of the mental health issues. I'm not sure I understand the reason why you cannot attend with her, but I would be hesitant to take her word for it.

You are absolutely correct that she has to choose to accept/seek treatment. It's frustrating when you can clearly see what needs to be done, but the other person refuses to accept the help.

You have my sympathies and prayers.

[Karl_Withakay]

My wife was born premature at 560 GRAMS. (that's less than 8 ounces). Back in May of 1984 when she was born, she was a celebrity. She was the youngest surviving premature baby in the history of Primary Children's Hospital in SLC at the time. When she was born, she had a cerebral hemorrhage and she died and came back three times. She's a bit slow too but she got her GED and considering the circumstances of her birth, it's amazing she doesn't have more problems than she does.

I worry about her terribly. Since she's been living alone, she barely showers (because I'm not there to talk her into it), she doesn't brush her teeth (because I'm not there to talk her into it), she barely washes her clothes (because I'm not there to do laundry) and she doesn't eat right (because I'm not there to cook for her). She really cannot safely live in her own but she's smart and she knows what to tell the doctor. She's deathly afraid of anyone having power of attorney over her too. She doesn't trust anyone (that's her paranoia). She takes Seroquel for her Schiz and the only thing that does is help her sleep and cause a LOT of weight gain. It does nothing for her voices, her hallucinations, or her paranoia. But she tells the doctor it does. She has severe insomnia problems so she doesn't want to stop the Seroquel because it helps her sleep. So she's really having medicare pay for a $650 a month sleeping pill. (Seroquel). They switched her to Geodon which made her loose a lot of weight and that was good but it didn't make her as sleepy as the Seroquel so she wanted the Seroquel back. I honestly think if she's living alone for more than a year, she will end up in the State Hospital or dead. That's my biggest fear.

Karl

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[beefche]

Karl, because of privacy issues, her doctor will not tell you anything about her. But that doesn't prevent you from telling her doctor stuff. I would recommend you calling her doctor's office and speaking with either a nurse or the doctor. Don't tell the receptionist. Explain that you aren't asking for information (that'll be the first thing they will say to you--I can't give out any info). Tell them you want to tell them what is going on.

It may not do any good. Again, because she is legally an adult, she can choose or not choose to get correct treatment. She can lie to her doctor. What I have found is that I have to tell my sister that she is responsible for her health. If she tells me she is going to hurt herself or someone else (or attempts to do either), then call the police. Even if you think she is just bluffing to get your attention, take it seriously. First, it'll let her know what the boundaries are. Second, it'll start a paper trail. Sometimes that is all we can do as much as we care and want to help. Sometimes they have to hit rock bottom before they even desire to crawl out and get help. Being committed to a hospital from the police might be that bottom.

I joined schizoprenia.com--they have a forum there that I found very helpful. Sometimes all I needed was to vent, but they all understood me completely. I found support there for me. You really should check it out.

[Karl_Withakay]

I just tried to call her and her phone is "out of service". Now I'm really worried. don't know if she cut it off or it got shut off.

Karl

[Misshalfway]

It sounds like to me that it might be important to understand when your wife is talking and when the illness is. It sounds like under any circumstances you would be having these troubles with her. I truly wonder if having a reciprocal and mutually rewarding marital relationship is possible with her. Not that I am advocating divorce. It just sounds like maybe you might be trying to save her. I am not sure you can protect her AND feel loved and cherished at the same time. I wonder where it might be appropriate for you to let go of her. If she is truly unsafe to herself and others, perhaps she does belong in a managed care circumstance. Any caregiver would be hard pressed to create a balanced situation at home let alone a rewarding marital relationship. You also seem a lot older and perhaps you feel like a father figure to her and she is just rebelling against you. I wonder about the compatability factor here. This feels like toxic attachment from both directions.

Please forgive my directness.

[Karl_Withakay]

Originally Posted by Misshalfway

It sounds like to me that it might be important to understand when your wife is talking and when the illness is. It sounds like under any circumstances you would be having these troubles with her. I truly wonder if having a reciprocal and mutually rewarding marital relationship is possible with her. Not that I am advocating divorce. It just sounds like maybe you might be trying to save her. I am not sure you can protect her AND feel loved and cherished at the same time. I wonder where it might be appropriate for you to let go of her. If she is truly unsafe to herself and others, perhaps she does belong in a managed care circumstance. Any caregiver would be hard pressed to create a balanced situation at home let alone a rewarding marital relationship. You also seem a lot older and perhaps you feel like a father figure to her and she is just rebelling against you. I wonder about the compatability factor here. This feels like toxic attachment from both directions.

Please forgive my directness.

No need to apologize Misshalfway. The thing is, when she is good, she's great. I can't get enough of her. I'll admit that I have this "wounded bird caregiver" complex. I knew she was damaged when I first got with her but didn't know to what extent. To be honest, I don't think I'd ever be able to have a "normal" marriage with her and that breaks my heart. She just yells so much. Everyone get's irritated but take something that irritates you or any other woman and the same thing throws my wife into a blind RAGE. She has so much anger. I explain to her how therapy works. I tell her usually, that it will get worse before it gets better but if she stays with it, It WILL get better. I explain that therapy doesn't take away bad memories, or pain, it just gives you the tools to deal with them in a non-destructive manner. But every time it starts to get a bit heavy or uncomfortable, she stops.

Karl