Need some advice in my marriage.

[CopenKagan]

I'm looking for some counsel in my marriage. My wife and I were sealed in the temple in September of 2008. Lately I have worried more and more about the health of our relationship. For the most part, we are both happy with each other. However, we seem to have different ideas as far as our sexual wants/needs. I feel like this is a wonderful way for us to share our love for each other and that it is important in our marriage. However, she simply doesn't have a desire to be physical at all. Last week I suggested that maybe she should talk to a sexual therapist to help her get over her inhibitions and self confidence issues. She was strongly against this idea.

I have talked to her about it many times. She talked to one of her friends who suggested that we read "And They Were Not Ashamed", which didn't seem to change much of anything. She says that she promises that she will try harder, but nothing ever seems to come from these "promises". Earlier tonight she could tell that I was somewhat upset with something, but I just told her that I was fine. I just couldn't bring myself to bring up that conversation again. I find that pursuing anything from her winds up making me feel that she is just telling me what I want to hear at the time. I don't try to initiate anything with her anymore because it's wearing on my emotions quite heavily anymore.

We both work full time jobs during the week, we both work "bankers hours". I also attend school a couple of nights a week. I realize that these things that keep us busy are going to hinder things a bit, although we do spend time with each other, and I make it a point to spend the entire weekends with her. I just don't know how much longer I can deal with the influence it has on my well being. I feel like I can't confront her with this issue anymore because nothing happens and I don't know where else to turn.

[RachelleDrew]

1. Do you have kids?

2. Has it always been an issue with her, even since the "honeymoon stage"?

3. Does she have any medical or emotional problems that have been diagnosed?

It seems awfully early in your marriage to start not wanting sex.

[Maya]

Was this just sealing of an earlier marriage? I suppose not. Then just take it easy... some women need to get a bit older, a bit more secure... or something. It might take years before the woman can find satisfaction in sex, some say they never did... but lied about it to the spouse, as they felt inferior as they could not find satisfaction that one was supposed to feel.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I know this is going to sound a bit awkward here, however, it is a question that you may have/or have not broached with her. Maybe the issue is not that she is shy about sex, but that it could very well be you are expecting her to perform for you and it is offensive to her and she just does not know how to say it.

So, set her down, ask her, "What is the one thing that turns you on?" And then actively listening.

For some women, it is the slightest touch in some areas. Others, it is being close to their spouse.

Another thing, ask her, "What are your fantasies?" Everyone has fantasies. Women have them more so than guys (why do you think romance novels are never fading out?).

Maybe share her one of your intimate fantasies.

And in all honesty, from what you posted, it sounds like the approach you are taken is all about how and why you are not being satisfied and pleasured. It could very well be the reason why this is pushing her away from you. This, of course, is gathered by you stating that you even suggested she go see a sex therapist.

Also, take in considerations that she might just be tired and stressed out and the last thing she wants is for you to come to bed and say "Please me baby, let's get it on like bunnies heat".

The other consideration is maybe she is not so much shy about sex, but that she is concerned about getting pregnant and not sure how to talk with you about this.

There could be any number of reasons. Not all of them have to be psychological factors.

Women have bad days.

Women are upset because you forgot to do something you promised her to do.

Maybe it is that monthly curse and she just feels too icky to be touched.

Maybe she giving you cues on how to turn her on to get her next to you and you are not picking up on those cues.

We do not know, only she knows.

So, do not approach it like a college frat boy who is trying to hit on the homecoming queen like everyone else has. Approach it differently than you have approached it.

"Hey honey, let me give you a massage,"

Or, come up behind her and lightly (and I mean very very lightly) kiss her on the curve of the neck.

hope that helps.

[Dude989]

Sex in any marriage is very important. It is a time when husband and wife bond and when they are most close. It helps them become closer and feel very intense and important feelings for one another. I agree that is very early in your marriage for your wife to start the down ward slope towards not wanting to be sexually active. I've known a few marriages that have fallen apart for this reason because one spouse doesn't want to have sex with the other and it can be a problem. Your best bet is sitting down with her and having a discussion, do not beat around the bush, be up front with her and tell her how you feel. You don't want this to lead to any other problems that can arise. Tell her that husbands and wives are supposed to want to be close to eachother in this way, it helps them bond and become one. And if you truly tell her your feelings you need to consult someone more educated in this matter and try to get professional help because you both need to be able to be comfortable and want to have intercourse with one another. Hope this helps!

[ryanh]

My $0.02 = DO NOT let this continue like it has. It is hard for me to even read the short account you give as I recognize myself and my marriage in there. Oh the broken promises and disappointments! The countless promises to "try harder" or make our relationship a priority.

It was about 10-12 years ago that I started to feel the helplessness of trying to discuss it, or rely on her promises as you are now feeling. Now, I'm in the middle of a divorce. IMO, you two have to solve this issue NOW if you hope avoid becoming so damaged that there is little or no hope. Spencer Kimball indicated that the Church's "research" led him to believe that sexual incompatibility was the #1 cause of divorce among members. Eventually you will become too hurt by the neglect and broken promises, and she will become too hurt by your demands and reactions. Don't let it get that far.

The problem won't simply "go away" on it's own. I don't think any of us can really give you firm guidance as to what the solution might be as there are countless combinations of problems. A good therapist is in order to explore what all is going on, and what can be done to reach a point where both of you are happy with the relationship.

There are a few recommendations and thoughts in another recent thread in the Family forum. See HELP!!!! Marriage Slipping!!!!

Also, there is a sticky at the top of this forum that lists marriage books and websites that may be of help.

[talisyn]

One thing you might consider is your wife's history. What is her family like about intimate matters? Was she abused as a child?

[CopenKagan]

Originally Posted by RachelleDrew

1. Do you have kids?

2. Has it always been an issue with her, even since the "honeymoon stage"?

3. Does she have any medical or emotional problems that have been diagnosed?

It seems awfully early in your marriage to start not wanting sex.

1. No kids.

2. Yes, we have never been active in that respect.

3. She has been diagnosed with anxiety, but it doesn't affect her most of the time.

Originally Posted by SeattleTruthSeeker

I know this is going to sound a bit awkward here, however, it is a question that you may have/or have not broached with her. Maybe the issue is not that she is shy about sex, but that it could very well be you are expecting her to perform for you and it is offensive to her and she just does not know how to say it.

So, set her down, ask her, "What is the one thing that turns you on?" And then actively listening.

For some women, it is the slightest touch in some areas. Others, it is being close to their spouse.

Another thing, ask her, "What are your fantasies?" Everyone has fantasies. Women have them more so than guys (why do you think romance novels are never fading out?).

Maybe share her one of your intimate fantasies.

And in all honesty, from what you posted, it sounds like the approach you are taken is all about how and why you are not being satisfied and pleasured. It could very well be the reason why this is pushing her away from you. This, of course, is gathered by you stating that you even suggested she go see a sex therapist.

Also, take in considerations that she might just be tired and stressed out and the last thing she wants is for you to come to bed and say "Please me baby, let's get it on like bunnies heat".

The other consideration is maybe she is not so much shy about sex, but that she is concerned about getting pregnant and not sure how to talk with you about this.

There could be any number of reasons. Not all of them have to be psychological factors.

Women have bad days.

Women are upset because you forgot to do something you promised her to do.

Maybe it is that monthly curse and she just feels too icky to be touched.

Maybe she giving you cues on how to turn her on to get her next to you and you are not picking up on those cues.

We do not know, only she knows.

So, do not approach it like a college frat boy who is trying to hit on the homecoming queen like everyone else has. Approach it differently than you have approached it.

"Hey honey, let me give you a massage,"

Or, come up behind her and lightly (and I mean very very lightly) kiss her on the curve of the neck.

hope that helps.

Thanks for the advice. I feel like I do go out of my way to make her feel good and I usually wind up worrying more about her than I do myself.

I have asked her questions about her turn-ons, fantasies, etc. I can't get her to answer these questions because she doesn't want to feel "dumb" or seem like "a horn dog", as she put it. I've told her every single time that it's just me and that I want to know these things and that I'm not going to judge her and that the only way I will know is if she helps me.

I will try the massage thing and some other good advice that you give.

Originally Posted by talisyn

One thing you might consider is your wife's history. What is her family like about intimate matters? Was she abused as a child?

I really don't know how her family looks at these kinds of matters. They aren't very open about it, if that's what you're wondering. And no, she wasn't abused as a child at all. The same thing has crossed my mind as well.

Originally Posted by ryanh

My $0.02 = DO NOT let this continue like it has. It is hard for me to even read the short account you give as I recognize myself and my marriage in there. Oh the broken promises and disappointments! The countless promises to "try harder" or make our relationship a priority.

It was about 10-12 years ago that I started to feel the helplessness of trying to discuss it, or rely on her promises as you are now feeling. Now, I'm in the middle of a divorce. IMO, you two have to solve this issue NOW if you hope avoid becoming so damaged that there is little or no hope. Spencer Kimball indicated that the Church's "research" led him to believe that sexual incompatibility was the #1 cause of divorce among members. Eventually you will become too hurt by the neglect and broken promises, and she will become too hurt by your demands and reactions. Don't let it get that far.

The problem won't simply "go away" on it's own. I don't think any of us can really give you firm guidance as to what the solution might be as there are countless combinations of problems. A good therapist is in order to explore what all is going on, and what can be done to reach a point where both of you are happy with the relationship.

There are a few recommendations and thoughts in another recent thread in the Family forum. See HELP!!!! Marriage Slipping!!!!

Also, there is a sticky at the top of this forum that lists marriage books and websites that may be of help.

This is what worries me. She says she will try harder, but she lacks the initiative to take action against it. I don't know how to make her realize that the confidence won't simply fall into her lap so to speak.

Originally Posted by Dude989

Sex in any marriage is very important. It is a time when husband and wife bond and when they are most close. It helps them become closer and feel very intense and important feelings for one another. I agree that is very early in your marriage for your wife to start the down ward slope towards not wanting to be sexually active. I've known a few marriages that have fallen apart for this reason because one spouse doesn't want to have sex with the other and it can be a problem. Your best bet is sitting down with her and having a discussion, do not beat around the bush, be up front with her and tell her how you feel. You don't want this to lead to any other problems that can arise. Tell her that husbands and wives are supposed to want to be close to eachother in this way, it helps them bond and become one. And if you truly tell her your feelings you need to consult someone more educated in this matter and try to get professional help because you both need to be able to be comfortable and want to have intercourse with one another. Hope this helps!

I was very up front with her today. She said she appreciates my honesty and that she will try to work harder at it. I told her that action needs to be taken and that she can't simply expect it to come to her overnight without doing anything about it.


Thank you all for the advice.

[Misshalfway]

After hearing your response to all the previous commentary, I am starting to wonder about her sexual attitudes and her perceptions of the actual sexual experience. What if her perceptions of how sex was gonna be and the reality of it are startlingly different and hard to reconcile. Sometimes in the church, we romanitcize stuff instead of just telling the truth. It messes us girls up. And it messes up boys too...but that is something else.

I guess I am wondering how she was taught about sex and if shame was woven into her attitudes. If she is worried about being a "horn dog", that might mean that her religious attitudes are warping her perceptions of proper sexual feelings. This is big and hard and VERY common in LDS culture. She is so afraid of lust that she can't tell the difference between that and the very human very righteous and good sex drive.

It's interesting and difficult to figure out the differences between men and women. Men generally always have an orgasm. They are simple and sure. Women, on the other hand must go thru a lot more. Sometimes the first while with sex can be painful or messy or irritating to that sensitive female skin. And women DON'T always have an orgasm with intercourse. Maybe she doesn't even understand her own anatomy and how her clitoris is stimulated. And if a person has shame happening at the same time, it can cause her to shut down or withdraw. My first couple of days with sex, frankly weren't that great. Everyone built it up to be this "amazing thing". And it was fun to finally explore and give in. But then I was sore and I felt weird after it was over. Feelings I didn't expect and feelings that scared me and confused me and made me feel like I was defective. And I hadn't been taught or prepared with the proper skills to handle it. My pour H. I think we both thought intercourse would be a mutually beneficial, simultaneously enjoyable thing. And it wasn't and now after so many years and a few kids and all that child bearing brings, my H and I have both learned that maybe it was never really meant to be that way. I mean, many women NEVER have an orgasm during intercourse. And all these movies and media purpetuates the myth for men and women. How unfair!!! All the more reason to explore the sexual relationship.

Does your wife have an older sister or a good friend she can talk to? Talking to ultra traditional mothers who were raised in the fifties .....yuck!

OR.... maybe you could get her a self help book that she can read in private instead of having to spill her most embarrassing stuff to a therapist.

I think the best thing you can do is to try to learn as much about the female sexual process as possible. And work patiently and gently to slowly open the communication and the trust. DON'T give way to resentments and impatience. They only make these problems worse. Your needs are important and shouldn't be overlooked. But part of marriage is learning how to support our spouse through their hard seasons and sometimes that means putting your stuff to the side for a minute.

[CopenKagan]

Update:
I talked to her a few days ago about this matter. At that time she said she would really try harder to meet me on this concern. Still I haven't seen any signs of even a little effort. I'm trying to be patient about it, I have been for the last 14 months, but this being kind and patient thing is really starting to wear on me (I thought it was bad a few months into marriage).

Misshalfway,

I really do think that it has been programmed into her head that it's not a good thing and that it shouldn't be discussed, let alone acted upon. The few times that we have been physical practically took an act of congress. I'm not sure if she had any ideas on how it was "supposed" to be. I think that everything she heard about it was in a negative light. When we read "And They Were Not Ashamed", I was hoping that it would help her realize that it is something that married couples are encouraged to enjoy (not to mention that we have been commanded to).

She does still have problems with pain, although I think that this is mainly tied to the fact that her body isn't used to the experience. I know there are medical reasons that this may be, but she has talked to her doctor about it and she didn't find any medical reasons of why it would hurt (another factor is nervousness that is causing her to be tense no matter how much effort is taken to help her relax).

I admire that after some time, you and your husband figured it out together. It's something that I look forward to with my wife. I think that she has a mindset that if she's not instantly amazing at something she tries, she tends not to want to try again, this not being any kind of exception.

She doesn't have any sisters. Although she has talked to her sister-in-law, as well as a few friends. I don't know a lot about what they discussed when they had these conversations with her (again, she won't really talk to me about it because of the "horn-dog" stigma she doesn't want to have). That is how we were introduced to the book I mentioned earlier.

One person that I have always thought has her head on straight is Dr. Laura (even if that does sound rediculous ). I got an audiobook of "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" and listened to the entire thing myself. I thought there were scores of great insight and advice. I suggested that my wife listen to it as well. She has listened to the first disc (of 3), but doesn't seem to have much interest in listening to the rest. She is busy, which I understand, but it just seems as if she has something else to do, she isn't willing to make the time to listen.

I've made it a point not to make her feel like I resent her for any of this (although at times I have a hard time not feeling this way even if I don't show it). When I'm curious about something, I read about it. I have covered a lot of information regarding the female sexual process. I know every girl likes something different. This goes back to me not knowing what she likes because she refuses to tell me.

I can't figure out the next step to take. We have been married for over a year and she still hasn't come to terms with having a physical relationship with her own husband. She isn't willing to talk about things she might enjoy, she won't seek professional help, she won't even read a book about it anymore. I'm at a loss.

I'm rambling, so I will stop here, I swear I could write a novel if I was given the time. Thank you all for reading and giving your thoughts and advice.