What Steps

[CaptainTux]

Hi.

So, here is my situation. Not really sure when, I suppose it is nagging at me. I would like to persue lds deeper. My wife, however, does not. Now, do not get the wrong impression. She is a good woman. Honest, loving, hard worker, great mother. But this is not a step she is willing to make. In some ways I feel I am suffocating in our current church. I feel there is more and this direction seems to lead to more.

At the end of the day we are a team and have been for more than a decade. I cannot see the right path as doing something behind her back. At the same time, I am not ready to divide the family on Sunday mornings.

Kinda a pickle here.

I suspect the right answer is to be the husband that I am told to be, but it is hard to do that without the instruction and the tools that come with being part of a community of people who believe as you do.

So...um...ideas?

Take your time. I need some sleep.

Cheers

[ALatterDaySaint]

Invite the missionaries over to talk to you. Let your wife know that you arent attempting to pressure her but that you are interested in what they have to say for your own curiousity/enlightenment. Invite her to join in or to feel free to not join in the discussions. Afterwards just talk about it with her and above ALL do not take offense or get worked up. Just be loving and patient and learn for yourself and let her come unto Christ on her own terms. Always invite but never force her participation.

[Josh M]

Yeah i think the missionaries are a great idea...after all, thats what they are for!

Do you read the Book of Mormon on a regular basis? If not, try that. Maybe it will kindle her interest in what you are doing.

above all, pray about it.

[CaptainTux]

Yeah i think the missionaries are a great idea...after all, thats what they are for!

Do you read the Book of Mormon on a regular basis? If not, try that. Maybe it will kindle her interest in what you are doing.

above all, pray about it.
[/b]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Praying? Yes, that part I have been doing.

Reading the books? Yep. Recently for the first time in a few years. Not always sure what is going on, but this and other web sources seem to help. Biblically, I did not fall off the turnip truck however. I went to an Evangelical Seminary for a few years and served as a youth pastor at one point (it was a volunteer post for a small church-when they got big enough to hire someone..well, they did.). When I say lost, I am one of those folks that likes to have commentaries and such available to me.

The missionaries. The last time I had them in my home we started off really well. They were very nice young men and my wife was actually fond of them as young men of character, but not fond of what they had to say (she was raised catholic if that helps). Eventually she had no problem with me meeting with them, she just did not want to be a part of it. When I decided to go to a Sunday service with them and a Bishop or Elder (?)...well, things got a bit tense. Tense would be the mother of all arguments.

The more I think about the timelines, the more I want to say my daughter was either not yet born, but about to be, or just born when all that happened.

Maybe it is time to get the missionaries here again.

[pushka]

Hi.

In some ways I feel I am suffocating in our current church. I feel there is more and this direction seems to lead to more.

At the end of the day we are a team and have been for more than a decade. I cannot see the right path as doing something behind her back. At the same time, I am not ready to divide the family on Sunday mornings.

[/b]

Hi Captain Tux,

In what way do you feel 'suffocated' by your current church? Do you feel that you no longer believe the doctrine that it's teaching? or do you mean in a physical sense, not being a part of the community of your church, ie. extra-curricular activities?

I would think very carefully about the real reasons you are exploring another, vastly differing, religion and way of life before making any concrete decisions. Think about the beliefs of the church you are currently attending and compare and contrast them to the beliefs of the LDS church, and then decide which you feel most strongly agrees with your own beliefs. Write down the beliefs/where they agree and where they disagree for more clarity, and ask questions to members of both churches, so that you get a full picture and feel more secure in the steps you are thinking of taking.

I hope this doesn't offend any LDS on here, it's just that Captain Tux sounds a little confused, and I think sitting down and carefully considering what he already believes in and which parts of it he thinks he might not believe in anymore is the best way to clear the confusion, and may be the best way of convincing his wife that his decision to re-explore the LDS church is right for him and her or not.

[Maureen]

I agree with pushka. I think it's common for people to go through "the grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome, but in reality it usually isn't. CT, put a lot of thought into why you feel you need this change, compare doctrine you already believe in to LDS doctrine, and make sure you understand your reasons for this change of religion you seek. Good luck!

M.

[CaptainTux]

I grew up around cows. I've seen first hand that crossing the fence in hopes the grass being greener just means I have to fix the fence.

It boils down to the external fruits of what I see....or, in this case, do not see.

I see the same stuff in every flavor of evangelical church I've been to. It is a cookie cutter subculture with little variety and little true community. They are all following the same template these days. The sources may be different, but it is an effort to achieve the Willow Creek community style and it is based in small groups, power point sermons, contemporary music, etc. It is growth of numbers as opposed to strengthening of community. Small groups are nothing more that showing who can speak the lingo the best and speak in such a way that their co workers would likely not recognize them.

If I were to place the doctrines I agree with and the doctrines I disagree with on a pad of paper....I may end up becoming Amish....Amana Amish so I could still drive and surf the web, but the HP rack servers and the PS2 may have to go away. Even worse than that, I would be basing my quest on my subjective opinion on matters as opposed to absolute truth.

As I have observed those who practice LDS in my community, I am seeing far better fruits. At this point in life I do not think any denomination has the market cornered on truth (no offense to anyone meant). But I see an emphasis on living a life as opposed to discussing a life. It suggests to me that there is something deeper at the core. There are some questions that I have that seem to be deeper than what the average missionary is equipped to handle. These are questions around time lines, materials, archaeological queries, etc. The misnomers and misunderstandings about caffeine, polygamy, baptizing the dead, running my own planet, blah blah blah are not concerns of mine.

I have some concerns left before I can take the plunge (pun intended), but some of those can only be addressed by meeting a few Sundays and meeting some elders without disrupting the marital harmony.

As far as the reasons. One. She is five years old and her smile and the way she looks at me makes me feel larger and better than I really am. Also, last year, a friend of mine who I have know for a long time did a terrible thing to a young girl I have known since the was nine. She told me what he had done. I helped her and her family go forward to have the right thing done. I had lost friends over this. He was a pillar of the community, loved by many, could not have possibly done any of this....blah blah blah.

I have always had a good ethical mindset, but there are times where I am Machiavellian. I've been in sales most of my life, it goes with the territory. This was the one time I drew a line in the sand and kept doing what was right no matter the consequence. The endings were not happy for all and rosy for all, the book is not finished on a young girl and the justice sought was found...but not to a level acceptable by some.

What I am trying to say is...the ending was not 100% rosy, but my actions were correct and based on what was right to do no matter the consequence to me. It felt good to know that no matter what, I had done the right thing.

I do not know if ANY of this made sense. Sorry if it convoluted things more.

[prisonchaplain]

I see the same stuff in every flavor of evangelical church I've been to. It is a cookie cutter subculture with little variety and little true community. They are all following the same template these days. The sources may be different, but it is an effort to achieve the Willow Creek community style and it is based in small groups, power point sermons, contemporary music, etc. It is growth of numbers as opposed to strengthening of community. Small groups are nothing more that showing who can speak the lingo the best and speak in such a way that their co workers would likely not recognize them.[/b]

The bottom-line here is that the LDS practice community comparatively better than most evangelical churches. While I've not been privy to direct LDS community living, their reputation would suggest that you are right. The reasons are many, but doctrinal certainty (there is only one source of final teaching), doctrinal distinctives that both draw fire from outside, and thus unite those inside, strong incentives to live righteous (the rewards of "temple worthy," callings of increasing responsibility, etc.), and a very strong culture--with some unique language and practices that, again, distinguish and pull together.

So, if it's community you seek, you will likely find it with the LDS.

If I were to place the doctrines I agree with and the doctrines I disagree with on a pad of paper....I may end up becoming Amish....Amana Amish so I could still drive and surf the web, but the HP rack servers and the PS2 may have to go away. Even worse than that, I would be basing my quest on my subjective opinion on matters as opposed to absolute truth. [/b]

You might find good community there too.

As I have observed those who practice LDS in my community, I am seeing far better fruits. At this point in life I do not think any denomination has the market cornered on truth (no offense to anyone meant). But I see an emphasis on living a life as opposed to discussing a life. It suggests to me that there is something deeper at the core. There are some questions that I have that seem to be deeper than what the average missionary is equipped to handle. These are questions around time lines, materials, archaeological queries, etc. The misnomers and misunderstandings about caffeine, polygamy, baptizing the dead, running my own planet, blah blah blah are not concerns of mine.[/b]

Since you've come from an evangelical perspective, I highly recommend a short book entitled: How Wide the Divide? A Mormon & an Evangelical in Conversation, by Craig L. Blomberg & Stephen E. Robinson. Blomberg is from Denver Seminary, Robinson from BYU, and both are friends. They do not waste time on secondary distinctive, and they clarify where some commonality exists, and yet the differences that will prove difficult to reconcile. It may help you flesh out you thinking on the doctrinal issues.

I have some concerns left before I can take the plunge (pun intended), but some of those can only be addressed by meeting a few Sundays and meeting some elders without disrupting the marital harmony.[/b]

If you become convinced of the doctrine, and fully convinced that the community you discover not only looks better, but ultimately is more like what Christ wanted, then I suppose you will simply have to pray for your wife's reconciliation with your move. On the other hand, God placed her in your life for a reason. You've trusted her in many things, I assume. If possible, this is something you will want to decide yea or nay on together. That may mean a slow, steady crawling into the pool vs. that sudden plunge you mentioned.

Just some thoughts from the token evangelical preacher in the house.

[CaptainTux]

So, if it's community you seek, you will likely find it with the LDS. [/b]

I wish it were only community I sought. If I wanted a good community, I could go to the pool hall down the street and meet all my old friends from high school who still wear mullets. I also need truth. It is hard for me to reconcile good teaching with empty community or an active community with no truth....somewhere there has got to be balance.

You might find good community there too. [/b]

Actually, they are a good bunch. The central Indiana Amish were clients of mine about 11 years ago. Savvy negotiators and honest business folk. Not very talkative on their ways until you get to know them. I was being sarcastic, but, there are worse people in the world.

Since you've come from an evangelical perspective, I highly recommend a short book entitled: How Wide the Divide? A Mormon & an Evangelical in Conversation, by Craig L. Blomberg & Stephen E. Robinson. Blomberg is from Denver Seminary, Robinson from BYU, and both are friends. They do not waste time on secondary distinctive, and they clarify where some commonality exists, and yet the differences that will prove difficult to reconcile. It may help you flesh out you thinking on the doctrinal issues. [/b]

This is definitely hitting my reading list ASAP. I was passively agnostic until I was 16 (passively agnostic means I did not really think about anything beyond what pair of tennis shoes to wear that day).

If you become convinced of the doctrine, and fully convinced that the community you discover not only looks better, but ultimately is more like what Christ wanted, then I suppose you will simply have to pray for your wife's reconciliation with your move. On the other hand, God placed her in your life for a reason. You've trusted her in many things, I assume. If possible, this is something you will want to decide yea or nay on together. That may mean a slow, steady crawling into the pool vs. that sudden plunge you mentioned.[/b]

She was a good woman placed in my life at the worst possible time for me to meet a good woman. I wanted a bad girl to do bad things with. Instead I found myself in a thee year holding pattern of celibacy waiting until we said "I do" in front of a bunch of people we were related to and friends with. We have survived near poverty, a child with a heart condition, the loss of many relatives in a short time span, and three surgeries in which we had little clue if I would come out okay or be a paralytic. She has been there every step of the way and I would not change a moment. The few times I have done things without her...well...stunk. Even when I would take final bow in the proverbial standing ovation...it meant nothing without her there. I may be a bear of very little brain in this hundred acre wood, but I do know that our relationship with Jesus is analogous to marriage and I cannot go in a direction without her. Maybe I want to, but at the end of the day...I can't until she can. Can I lead her? Can I encourage her? Can I tell her what is on my mind? Yeah. Do I....um...sometimes.
Thank you so much for the post.

[Maureen]

I see the same stuff in every flavor of evangelical church I've been to. It is a cookie cutter subculture with little variety and little true community. They are all following the same template these days....It is growth of numbers as opposed to strengthening of community....[/b]

CT, I'm sure it would not surprise you that the same can occur in the LDS church. There are the well-worn, long standing LDS members out there, feeling jaded about the cookie-cutter culture of LDSism. People are human, no matter what religion you are in the midst of.

As I have observed those who practice LDS in my community, I am seeing far better fruits. At this point in life I do not think any denomination has the market cornered on truth (no offense to anyone meant). But I see an emphasis on living a life as opposed to discussing a life. It suggests to me that there is something deeper at the core....[/b]

But remember you are on the outside looking in. Like I said, "the grass can look greener on the other side", doesn't mean it is. Mankind is not perfect. I would think that no matter how we organize and socialize our religious communities, eventually some will feel jaded about their church family. I personnally don't think a change of 'church' scenery is usually the answer, it's probably more of a internal, personal diagnostic that needs to take place.

You seem like a very intelligent, well-rounded person, who has put a lot of thought in your quest. In some cases, the opinions of others might have no effect at all. It seems that you, in a way, have already made up your mind, and do intend to join the LDS church. Might be a good idea, and then once you're in, you can see for yourself if you've made the right decision. Good luck, CT.

M.