Tithing Difficulties

[dahlia]

I had (and still have) serious philosophical issues with tithing. It was a major difficulty during my lessons (so much so that I had to leave the room once during a discussion, I was so emotional about it). I never said I wouldn't pay, I just said I was still working on it and trying to get my head there. I also had some family issues that required my financial help and was torn between helping family and paying a tithe, as I think Heavenly Father wouldn't want my mother to be in difficulties if I could help her out of them. That said, I recognized it is a covenant we make and I was willing to work my way toward it.

I was still able to get baptized and still received a temple recommend to allow me to do baptisms for the dead. I think my bishop did the right thing because allowing me to go to the temple, to do ordinances, to have that experience, certainly made me feel more willing to tithe, which I have just begun this month.

I am concerned about the OP because that situation looks dire and I would be the first to say it would be difficult for me to tell the OP to tithe. In my situation, the money was there, but I wanted to spend it on my own charities and family. As mentioned above, I have heard that bishops will try find away to help people out so they can tithe, and the OP might try that. Tithing (along with following the other commandments) allows you to have the full experience of being LDS. You don't want to forgo your opportunities to go to the temple at some point because of this one problem. If you tithed on your income, minus your disability payments, which I would argue go toward a specific purpose, and aren't the same as 'income' from a pension or salary, I could live with that, but I'm not a bishop.

[islelassie]

Thank you all for your responses to my query. I would appreciate it if someone explained what the term ' Increase ' is. Increase of what? It may be a US expression but it means nothing to me over here in the UK. When the rules were made I doubt there was Income Taxes. So 10% of everything that one earned would be gross. However, we do pay income tax these days, I have to pay 20% of my pension in Income Tax, and there are basic things like rent, utility contracts and running a car if you live in a rural area. I am also financially supporting two grandchildren, for whom I get no assistance. If I had a huge salary it would be different but I am on a fixed pension. So once I have covered the above, I would be glad to pay 10% of what is left .

[beefche]

The LDS church has not defined "increase." The LDS church believes that the definition is not something they want to officially define at this point (it may be they define it in the future, although that is unlikely to happen). The definition is between you and the Lord.

As others have said, I think meeting with missionaries and eventually having a discussion with them would be very beneficial to you.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I find myself reminded of the Parable told by Christ about "The Widow's Mite" (Please forgive the spelling).. If you are not familiar with it I would suggest reading Mark 12:41-44 or Luke 21:1-4.

A Member of my Bisphopric and I were talking about tithing this weeked and this parable came up and I think that it does a good job at explaining. I personally feel that the teaching of 10% is perfectly in line with the teaching from Christ's times. That being said, I also feel that if you had to chose between feeding your family and paying your tithing I am sure that Christ would be ok with you feeding your family (of course the Church can help there too). If it came down to buying that new big screen TV or Tithing.. I think we all know what the right thing to do is there..... ;-)

Just my two cents

[JudoMinja]

This situation might be one where you could get church assistance... I would not be concerned about the tithing issue, because if you really "can't afford" it, then the church will help you. You could get food from the Bishop's storehouse, or help paying for bills... Or you may get less direct help from the members. The Relief Society is very good about providing meals for those in need, and the Priesthood is really good about doing projects to help with yardwork, just to name a couple examples. If you are struggling financially, tithing would not be a burden- it would open the door to greater opportunities for help and blessings.

[Madriglace]

It is between you and the Lord to decide what your increase is. To me my increase is what I make ... taxes are just another bill that has to be paid from my wages. I pay on the gross and usually round up because frankly I need all the help I can get. I have my current job because I paid tithing on my unemployement.

One of the great things is that the Lord doesn't just tell you to pay tithing ... He urges us to try it and see if it works

3 Nephi 24:10
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house; and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

No matter how much or how little we make if we take the Lord at His word and are obdient we will prosper ... we won't ever get wealthy but we will have all we need when we need it. I have seen it happen to me and many many other people ... try it, you'll like it!

One thing ... an elder told a new member in our area that because they were on disability they were exempt from tithing ... not so. If we have income we need to pay tithing not just for the blessings but as a matter of obedience and faith.

[Spartan117]

Originally Posted by Madriglace

One thing ... an elder told a new member in our area that because they were on disability they were exempt from tithing ... not so.

You are entirely correct on that. I was medically discharged from the military and get a small amount of disability and for the first 6 months after I converted I didn't pay tithing on that amount. No one told me that I didn't in your example, I just never really thought about it. I was talking with my bishop one day and we got started talking about my time in the military, I mentioned I was medically discharged and I get a small amount each month. And it was like a light bulb went on and I asked "do I have to pay tithing on that?" And he just kinda smiled at me and said "yeah you do" and I had an ah-ha moment then an uh-oh one. My bishop reassured me I hadn't done anything wrong, I was just new and learning.

I get kinda urked when people tell tithing stories (especially in sacrament talks) about how they were flat broke, had to pay some important overdue bill, but still paid tithing and then miraculously $5,000 magically appeared in their bank account. Like the "reward" for paying tithing is just more money. I also believe paying tithing is a very personal matter. It's one thing to get a talk on tithing at General Conference, it's an entirely different when someone preaches about it in sacrament meeting. People's personal finances are their own business, and I don't think someone giving a talk should be sharing their stories or bragging about what happened when they paid their tithing this time or that. That's great. I was in a gospel principles class right after I converted, and the subject was tithing. An older woman said that this particular month had been rough, and it came down to paying tithing or paying for her husbands prescriptions, and they chose the prescriptions. Without missing a beat, another member looked right at her and said "well maybe your husband was supposed to die this month" then lectured the woman about the issue. I didn't think it was possible to feel that awkward at church.

The only tithing story I've heard from a sacrament meeting talk that I thought was appropriate and great was in my old singles ward. This guy is giving his talk, and said "it was the end of the month. I had a car payment and tithing to pay, but only enough for one" and I was half paying attention, waiting for him to say he paid his tithing and found a couple hundred dollars in an old coat and made his car payment too and had money left over for blah blah blah. But he didn't. He said he paid his tithing, and his car got repo'd. Stunned everyone, then he talked about taking the bus everywhere and how much he hated it. But, he ended up meeting his wife on the bus one day. Now that's a testimony about tithing.

I think sometimes people invent things for sharing in Sacrament, or simply interpret thnings so they appear or sound miraculous or inspiring. Not always, I simply have that hunch now and then.

For the guy with the choice of a car payment or tithing, I would probably have made the car payment that month, and then prayed like the dickens to get another job or some other way of making up the tithing the following month. You can pay your tithing in one lump some and comply with the law of tithing. I would have weighed the impact on my credit rating, ability to take additional jobs due to having car transportation, etcetera, against simply being in compliance that month, when tithing is an annual thing.

Now, I know it's better to pay monthly, but when there just isn't enough to go around one month, I'd be in overdrive trying to figure out what I've got to do to make it so I CAN be flush enough with cash I can meet all obligations in the future - and I would use the time to the end of the year to get myself into that position. Particularly when my credit rating is at stake. And that would mean selling off possessions, stricter budgeting, and taking on extra work.

Now, the guy did meet his wife as a result of the bus experience, which is a good thing, so I don't want to discount that. I'd sacrifice my credit rating to meet Mrs. Right, but I wouldn't sacrifice it to pay my tithing mid-year when I could meet my tithing obligation AND keep my credit rating at the same time by using the time available until tithing settlement to get my finances in order.

[Spartan117]

I try not to discount peoples spiritual experiences but I think people connect too many dots sometimes.

[LeKook]

I struggled with tithing also. My husband and I lost our home in foreclosure crisis (see any news web site, column A, LOL!). Anyway I only earn about $450 a month in a good month, hubby only earns when he can find small carpentry jobs. So basically, figure it on we're only living on my income.

Anyway, since my husband isn't a church member, I only tithe 10% of my own earnings, which I did. Our auto insurance was due the day I paid the tithes. We were exactly $45 short to pay the auto insurance, and we were exactly $45 short because that was the amount I paid for tithes.

Hubby (naturally!) was wigging out about not having enough to pay the auto insurance, but I knew I was in the right to pay the tithes first, I'd been saving up to cover my earnings for August. I wasn't concerned; sure, $45 short is a lot when every cent we made up to that point had to go to pay the auto insurance, but you know...

Keep in mind up to this point my husband has had NO work for at least a month and a half.

The day after I paid the tithes, what happened? Hubby got a short-term job, about 3 day's work, for $2600.

Not a bad return on the tithing investment, LOL!!! My point is, take a leap, and pay the tithes, and watch and see what happens. Granted, tithing is not some sort of magic pill to boost our own personal economies, but Heavenly Father did and does promise to bless us if we do what he asks us to do.