Do missionaries only meet with someone who's committed to baptism soon?

[rayhale]

One thing I forgot to mention, missionaries are strongly encouraged to pay as much as the $375 a month expense that the Church set as a standard rate for all missions. That being said, some missionaries would not only see a waste of time to talk to someone that have been talking to the missionaries for years, or even decades, but also a waste of money.

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by rayhale

One thing I forgot to mention, missionaries are strongly encouraged to pay as much as the $375 a month expense that the Church set as a standard rate for all missions. That being said, some missionaries would not only see a waste of time to talk to someone that have been talking to the missionaries for years, or even decades, but also a waste of money.

Just so the OP doesn't get the idea that missionaries are robots and only have a narrow vision of "get them baptized and move on", I must add my 2 cents.

For missionaries their world is the investigators they meet, the ward or branch members and fellow missionaries. Their lives take on a more spiritual focus than regular members but they do not forsake their social involvement with people. Because their social involvement has become very limited I would think that that interaction (for their humanity sake)would become even more important. My nephew just finished his mission (and I have another one 1/3 of the way into his mission) and from emails received by both, their lives were and are intertwined with the lives of the many people they meet. Some missionaries stay with members in their homes, and form bonds and friendships. Some investigators become converts and stay in touch with their missionaries. And some fellow missionaries that they work with become fast friends, during and after the mission. When my nephew finished his mission, his Mom and sister came to pick him up and he took his family around visiting members and converts that he became close to.

So even though a missionary's life if centrally focused on teaching and baptizing, I suspect that the most do not loose their humanity while trying to do their job. I would hope that for the majority, their humanity would become more open and caring.

M.

[gopecon]

As someone who has served in the missionary program as a full time missionary and in 4 wards and branches since then, I can assure you that missionaries "drop" investigators all the time. While they could possibly have explained it better, and maybe a full drop should not have happened (if that is what happened at all), this is not an unusual thing to have happen. I don't mean this to be critical either, it is often for the best that it does happen.

They have a limited amount of time to find people who are honestly seeking for the truth. I was willing to meet with just about anyone once, but if it became clear that I was just answering questions for curiosity sake I would have evaluated whether or not this was an effective use of my time. I'm not sure of the exact situation of the OP, but if the missionaries had been meeting with him for many months with slow progress and they were told that he wanted to wait for an undetermined lenght of time before baptism, then cutting back on their contacts makes sense (not totally dropping, but reducing the amount of time). I assume that waiting for Mom to get better is not just getting over the flu, but something much longer term. I can see how this would feel like they are just getting put off and are seeing progress stalling out. Maybe we have a failure to communicate clearly (on both sides). Did the Elders explain how much they will come over, if at all? Did Max give them a hoped for time frame on his mother's recovery? If it's short term (few weeks) I don't see the harm in waiting. If it looks to be significantly longer then the Elders didn't seem to have much of a choice.

[Max3732]

Thanks again for the tremendous input.

The length of time is probably going to be in the 2 to 4 week range, but it could be longer. Before this conversation they told me they could see a lot of progress in me and I also just a week before told them that I was no longer afraid of baptism and its something I could see myself doing, which has never happened before.

As a result of the conversation and just how "robot like" their reaction was when I told them my mom had taken a turn for the worse and how they didn't seem to care what she or my family was going through I've seriously reconsidered the idea of baptism. When I was meeting with them I was reading everyday and also reading talks online. Now I can barely stand to look at the stuff, although I did attend church. Cutting down the frequency of meeting would have made a lot of sense, but the ultimatum (get baptized or we won't talk to you) really stung.

As I mentioned before the members couldn't be nicer, although I still find it odd that they said we should keep track of who doesn't come and then contact them to make sure they come next week. They've also talked about going to the rescue of people who haven't gone to church in a while.

I'm not someone who wants to explain why I went or didn't go to church and don't think its anyone's business how often I go. When they pass around the attendance sheet I never sign it because I don't like the idea of them keeping a record. If someone says they didn't go because they were busy would the members push them on it or leave them with some privacy?


I haven't gone to all 3 meetings every week. I'm usually late for sacrament meeting and I've also left elder's quorum early numerous times.

I don't want to repeat the conversation with the branch president cause I don't know if he's reading this and I don't want to be identified. The main thing I can think of that may have caused him to start lecturing was that I didn't readily agree with everything he was saying.

As far as asking doctrine questions here, I may give that a try although its a little different than having a person in front of you explaining it.

[Mamas_Girl]

Originally Posted by Max3732

The length of time is probably going to be in the 2 to 4 week range, but it could be longer. Before this conversation they told me they could see a lot of progress in me and I also just a week before told them that I was no longer afraid of baptism and its something I could see myself doing, which has never happened before.

Again, this is going to come off sounding rude, but I'm just going to throw this out there.

I think one thing that you have to keep in mind is that you've said you've been investigating the church on and off for the past couple of years, you've been resisting baptism up till now... and now you want to but you can't cause mom's ill, and it'll be too difficult on her. May I ask why you feel being baptized would be difficult on your mom and cause a bunch of problems but it won't when she's better? It's been my experience that if it's a problem when they're ill, it's no better when they're well, and I'm wondering if your missionaries have run across the same findings.

You really should have a mentor within the branch that you can turn to with questions and concerns. What worries me to some extent is that you say when the missionaries quit coming you lost the initiative to search and study on your own. How do you expect this to change when you're baptized and the missionaries have to move on?

As far as attendence sheets: most churches that I've attended (non-LDS) have attendence sheets. I used to attend the Methodist church (born and raised) and every week during the service there was a clipboard with a paper on it at the end of the row that was passed down. We put our name on it and whether or not we were local, a visitor, a member, or a member of another denomination (and if so, which one). We did this in Sunday School as well. So I never saw this as anything odd or unusual.

Signing the attendence sheet is important as the difference between a branch and a ward is numbers. The church keeps track of how many people attend each week, and if they hit a certain number for so many weeks then the branch can become a ward. When it becomes a ward it gets some benefits like a new building or new wings added onto the existing building. Right now I attend a ward, but we're trying to reach a certain number so we can have a full gymnasium, instead of just a half of one, and I think there are other rooms and such that are added as well.

I've never found that people are all that concerned with a person's non-attendence. Sometimes we'll ask if there's anyone who's sick or afflicted, not so much to barge in on them, but to keep them in our prayers. I came back about 6 months ago after being inactive for 25 years. No one asked me why I was gone, or what I was doing. I was contacted only once by my bishop to be told that the branch had just been made a ward and they were holding a special service if I was interested in coming. I didn't. No one asked why. It may be different in other places, but I've lived all across the US and served my mission in 8 different areas, and I don't find they're too concerned.

I haven't gone to all 3 meetings every week. I'm usually late for sacrament meeting and I've also left elder's quorum early numerous times.

I don't mean to be blunt here, but are you sure you're ready for baptism? I mean you really do need to attend regularly in order to receive the blessings of church membership. Yeah, you'll get asked about attendence when you go to get your temple recommend. The branch president and stake president will both ask you if you've been attending church regularly, and if not, why?

As far as asking doctrine questions here, I may give that a try although its a little different than having a person in front of you explaining it.

Great! Look forward to helping you.

[imdonel8r]

Have you thought about bring up some of your questions to your teachers? Maybe in Gospel Principles? I actually was visited by the missionaries for 2 years before I was baptized after my wedding.

I think one thing you need to think hard and long about is why you are having a hard time with the missionaries not seeing you regularly? Missionaries change out often so you will not always have the same relationship with them. Not to mention after your baptized you will be seeing the missionaries much less.

[scsquishysc]

My DH and I were recently on exchange with missionaries (we are ward missionaries) and they'd been working with a couple for several months on getting toward baptism. One in the partnership wanted it and the other didn't. They were sort of at a standstill the night we were there. I asked the elders about it as we were taking them home and they said that they couldn't continue to visit the couple if they weren't going to progress towards baptism. They were REALLY upset about it, as they like the couple as people, not just investigators. I asked them about it. They indicated a two-fold reason: 1) they are on a spiritual mission right now. If they aren't teaching the couple, as the couple doesn't have further questions at this time, they are simply sitting there making small talk and being friends. While it's good to have a friendship, their mission is for spiritual reasons and developing a (in this case - maybe not yours) goofy friendly relationship where they aren't doing missionary work will remove the Spirit in some ways from their work. They work hard to stay focused on the Spirit and their work in the field.

2) They don't want to pressure you. You've said "not right now," so they are giving you the space that you need/want at this time. In their position, they can only do so much until you are ready for baptism. They should still visit here and there but I agree with a previous post...ward missionaries should/could be picking up here and really making you feel welcome, even if you aren't baptized yet. I

t's a perfect church...but not perfect people. These missionaries are only 19-21ish...they don't have perfect social skills!

[Dove]

Hello, Max;
Gee, I'm so sorry for how you are left feeling after your interactions with the missionaries.....
From what little I've read, it sounds like you have been "investigating" the church for awhile, have felt like you have been pretty close to being ready in the past for baptism; but, now, feel turned off by your interactions with the missionaries.
I have some ideas you may want to consider during your decision making process in this.
A core teaching in our gospel is the gift of agency (being allowed one's freedom to choose). No one should be forced/pressured/coerced or pushed into accepting the gospel. If you have been feeling that you have been, maybe consider setting some simple boundaries. Allow the missionaries to stop teaching you, if that is what they have expressed they wanted to do/not do. If people start lecturing you, maybe a polite way of changing the subject, ending the conversation or expressing your discomfort might be a positive way of ending that.

Meanwhile, it sounds like you have been studying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for awhile now. That you have some disagreement with some points of doctrine....Might I suggest that you list out what you disagree with/don't understand, and go to God in prayer about it. Also, study the topic (You mentioned exaltation as being one of your concerns) in the scriptures and our current standards concerning it. Our scriptures are very detailed in their tools to help one study different topics. The topical guide in the Bible, the index in the Book of Mormon, and all the many footnotes in both are just a few of the tools given for one to study out different topics that may concern them. Also, lds.org has a whole list of topics with the current standing of the church's input on them available to anyone seeking to know...

I have been a member of the lds faith all my life. I believe deeply in the doctrine; yet, have learned to "let go and let God" as far as different people are concerned. Meaning, that when my journey in the gospel is about coming to Christ and the Father through the Holy Spirit is my focus; then I succeed in finding love and peace. When I diverge from this and focus on "the arm of flesh," i.e., what other people are dong around me, it tends to cause me to wander from the peace and love I was seeking though God. People are people wherever they are......and I have found that in general focusing on some one else to give me the deep spiritual answers I am looking for instead of going "within," i.e., listening and obeying what God is directing me to do, comes to naught, no matter where I'm at.

When I do listen to the Holy Spirit, I can only acknowledge how powerfully I have felt it through the covenants I have made in being baptized and in the temple. I know the power of the priesthood in the LDS church is very real and lives up to what it says it is; which is mainly the authority to act in God's name here on earth. I always feel the Spirit while reading the Book of Mormon. It uplifts me on a daily basis.

May I suggest that you go to God yourself in prayer and study as you sort these things out?

So sorry to you and your family concerning your mother and her health. Please keep us updated as to how she's doing~

Thanks
Dove

[Shelly200]

Being baptized into a new church is a big deal; don't take the matter lightly. If you don't feel ready to be baptized, then don't. The missionaries are already members and have already taken their faith journey, now you have to make yours. If that leads to baptism, great! If it doesn't, then that's okay too. Don't let anyone pressure you into doing something you don't feel committed to. Many people do not like the idea of being baptized after only a few weeks of lessons; some people like to investigate more thoroughly first.

At the same time, though, do not let two young missionaries discourage you from the church completely. If you feel called to baptism, get baptized. If you feel called to baptism next week, next month, next year, when you're 80, then get baptized then. But if you feel called to baptism, then DO get baptized, even if the missionaries are off-putting. Simply send them on their way; you can learn from the church itself, in meetings and through appointments to talk with people about your questions.

Don't let yourself feel like a number checked off a missionary's list; do what God is calling you to do in all things, whether that is baptism today, baptism next month, or baptism never. If you obey God's will, everything else will fall into place.

Oh, and whatever illness your mother has, I pray for her swift and thorough recovery.

[Yehshen]

I've been reading all of the discussion on this thread, and wanted to throw my perspective out there. I just joined the church, after investigating for 6 months or so.

First, you should not be baptized until you are ready. The missionary's goal is to baptize as many people as soon as they are ready. That is not your goal. Your goal is to make sure you are ready. I worked with two or three sets of companions as they changed out over 6 months; some were better than others (for me). It probably was a combination of personality fit, my readiness, and how the missionaries read the signals I was throwing out.

(And by the way, I definitely was throwing out mixed messages), as I vacillated between "gee, this sounds cool, and really really familiar" and "this is crazy".

A couple of thoughts: did the missionaries invite other members of the ward to your lessons? I really felt having a third party there helped, because I didn't feel as pushed to make commitments. Every time the missionaries asked me for a commitment I took a step backward. The elders who somehow figured this out and backed off were the ones that eventually heard me say, ok, schedule the baptism.

Do you know that once you are baptized,they repeat the same lessons again, with a little more depth? I found my learning continued more after baptism...not sure whether church members were more willing to commit to teaching me (probably) or whether I was more receptive (again probably).

And somebody alluded to the fact that once someone gets close to baptism, the "adversary" - I think that was the wording - gets busy and creates barriers. OK, now frankly, I don't believe the devil does this. I refuse to believe this. Except:

It was 2 weeks between the time I agreed to be baptised and the scheduled date. Those were the worst two weeks of my life. The self doubt....buyer's remorse, if you will, really set in. I had major problems sleeping, everything went wrong, at work, at home, weird things happened with friends. That continued throughout the night of the baptism: I literally sat in my car outside the church and debated whether to go in. The doubt - poof - went away immediately at baptism and I felt a tremendous peace.

So, you need to be sure you want to be baptised when you say it, because I suspect you will have some self doubt, and maybe that's what you are feeling right now. But I wanted to share my experience. Take the time you need.