Harry Potter

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by dazed-and-confused

the catcher in the rye

Dazed! Thank you!

I was trying to think of that title all yesterday afternoon. I even did a google search, but could not think of applicable words. It was driving me crazy!

Elphie

[RachelleDrew]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

. The Giver? Why in the world would they ban that?

Elphaba

Do you remember the part where the main character has "dreams" that his parents give him pills for? It was hinted that the dreams were nocturnal emissions, although as a child I didn't know that.

That was an issue, and also that the community the character lived in was socialistic and atheistic.

Once again though, these things are never stated, only implied. Those are the reasons I heard parents didn't want it in the library.

They were trying to ban Harry Potter from the library last I heard, along with historical books about Freud and Marx. So far they've had no luck, but you never know.

[dazed-and-confused]

elphie..you have no idea how pleased i am to have been of service to you...lol.....as for google?...try holden caufield.....uh...i think thats right...lol....been a LONG time.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by RachelleDrew

What in the heck is the Golden Compass?

My daughter and I thought the movie was great. Hope they make the sequels.

[IntoGod33]

Not sure what you think I said, but I never said they were the same thing. Here's what I said:And I stand by it. From a Christian's point of view, if you find nothing wrong with the HP books, you should also find nothing wrong with the HDM books. They both operate in a universe completely devoid of any sort of ultimate deific power. They both have a total void of ultimate source of morality. They both share the same ethical foundation of a non-believer (basically, it's nicer to be good, so ya oughta be good).

People forget this when they read Pullman's books, but in his universe, god is not the supreme being. He's just some guy who seized power. There is no God in Pullman's books, and there is no God in Rowling's either.

If you disagree, please cite chapter and page in any HP book where the existence of God is shown.

So if a piece of literature doesn't mention or revolve around God it is atheistic? Huh?!?! If that's the case then good writing counts for beans if God isn't mentioned. J.K. Rowling wrote a series of books for children and young adults. Although God is never explicitly mentioned (they celebrate Christmas each year so logically they are Christians) I think it's a stretch to refer to their world as atheistic. There is nothing wrong with imagination and creativity, especially if the message is positive. Harry is a good person - he is honest, loyal, and caring. Yes the main idea is magic - but it's not like these kids are doing magic for evil purposes. IT'S JUST FICTION! I don't think God has any problem with Harry Potter, and obviously the Church doesn't because it's sold on Deseret Book. It doesn't teach children anything bad or harmful and I refuse to believe that because God isn't the central character in the plot then it is atheistic. If that is the case, how many other excellent books would we label "atheistic"?

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by checkerboy

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that in every book of the HP series the students celebrated Christmas, which of course you know is a Christian holiday, which by inclusion must mean that in the wizarding world they believe in Christ or is it just that Christmas has lost all religious meaning whatsoever?

Fair question. Let's ask the people who have read the HP books: Hey HP readers! When they celebrated Christmas in the books, was there any sort of acknowledgement of Christ? Or was it just a bunch of feasting and present giving, completely devoid of the 'reason for the season'?

Originally Posted by IntoGod33

If that's the case then good writing counts for beans if God isn't mentioned.

Good writing is a separate issue. It's perfectly fine to get a kick out of HP, and find Pullman's books a bore (or vice versa). That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about giggling about people avoiding HP because of it's unchristian elements, but avoiding Pullman's books for the same reason. It strikes me as a double standard.

(they celebrate Christmas each year so logically they are Christians)

In Pullman's books, we're bombarded with Christian (mostly Catholic) stuff, so by your logic, since we see it the books must be ok.

I think it's a stretch to refer to their world as atheistic.

Atheism: The components of the word are A (absence) and - theos (God). By definition, if God ain't in the universe, then it is an atheistic universe. Also by definition, everything found in the author's books makes up the sum total of the universe.

There is nothing wrong with imagination and creativity, especially if the message is positive. Harry is a good person - he is honest, loyal, and caring.

And in the Pullman books, the 'good guys' are good because they fight against the kingdom of god, which is run by a bunch of power hungry bad guys who want to rule all the universes. The heroine is a good person struggling to mature with two bad parents in a world where the church is a corrupt and evil force. She ends up setting aside her personal self-interest and saves everybody. You are right - "there is nothing wrong with imagination and creativity, especially if the message is positive". Therefore, it's goofy to attack Pullman's books for doing what HP's books also do.

Yes the main idea is magic - but it's not like these kids are doing magic for evil purposes.

Well, the bad kids do. Again, HP and Pullman's books are the same - power is there for the taking, and the good guys fight the bad guys in a universe devoid of any ultimate source of morality other than what they decide for themselves.

I don't think God has any problem with Harry Potter, and obviously the Church doesn't because it's sold on Deseret Book.

FYI, Deseret Book also sells Pullman.

I refuse to believe that because God isn't the central character in the plot then it is atheistic.

That's a bit of a strawman argument. Nobody here is saying anything about God having to be a central character.

LM

[Bookmeister]

OH NO!!!!!!!!! What do all y'all mean that Harry Potter isn't real????!!!!

[IntoGod33]

Well...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I also want to mention that I am not a fan of the Pullman books...started reading one of them and never could get through it. My point is that Harry Potter is only attacked because it centers on a world of witches and wizards. If that weren't the case, the issue of God wouldn't even come up because countless books for children, young adults and adults alike fail to explicitly discuss God and yet they are not labeled "atheistic."

[nzsweetgirl]

I have a friend that is pentecostal and went so far as to ask me to remove the Harry Potter covers from some of my note books. She wont even let her children watch something like Pokemon. I personally don't have a problem with the books and I cant wait for the last 2 movies to come out (technically 3 because the last book is in 2 parts)

[Naomi3]

Originally Posted by Loudmouth_Mormon

If there's nothing with Harry Potter books, that means there should also be nothing wrong with The Golden Compass movie, the trilogy it's based on, or the author's athiest agenda.

LM

There is nothing wrong with the Golden Compass. If you are looking for bad you will find it. Be positive on things not a downer! I totally don't agree with the atheist agenda thing! Hogwash!