You're Best Life Now

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 2 2006, 02:02 AM
I almost don't know what to say, almost... so it wasn't the gospel that brought your husband back? Nor the influence of the Holy Ghost, nor the love and example of his wife, or the real-life example of men and women he knows and respects, nor even the exertion of his own good self,

I'm certain God was in the mix of this husband's spiritual reconciliation. But me thinks you err in requiring that God use logic, intelligence, or the high socio-economic demographics of your church to draw men unto himself.

Rather, God seems to delight in using foolish things. Consider the following:

Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam...who...was rebuked for his inquity: the dumb donkey (note that the site will not allow the kjv word for donkey here) speaking with a man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 2 Peter 2:15-16 KJV.

Here, God, not only drew the attention of some guy--but a prophet! And He did so using a donkey. And you thought Shrek was just a silly movie for kids

More specifically, God chooses to use preaching to bring lost souls to him.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ... For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1 Corinthians 1:18, 21

So why badger the sister? Her husband is reconciled to God through such a foolish means as a rich evangelical minister's preaching (via the written word). Why not do as Scripture commands us?

Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Romans 12:15 KJV

but rather a positive mental attitude book by a rich TV preacher that did it?
That's odd.* How is it that an Evangelical showman showed

I'm trying discern what really caused you to react here.

1. Maybe you don't like positive mental attitudes? I vote for the half-full glass.

2. Maybe you don't think spiritual people should be rich? Yet, you seem pleased that your church has reached a level of material prosperity, and that the LDS as a group are above average in this department.

3. Maybe you don't like TV preachers? Ah...now here's a strong possiblity. Yet, I doubt you have it in for Billy Graham, or that you opposed the several public service announcements your church sponsored. What did this Olsteen actually say or do that causes you to be so suspicious? I don't think he's the begger weepy type, pleading for one more social security check dollar from the watchers. Also, he's upbeat, non deroggatory towards other religions, he doesn't harp on sin much. I rather thought that Olsteen would be the type of evangelical minister you could at least tolerate.

4. Maybe you don't like evangelicals? Have you given up on us?

5. You think Olsteen's a showman? Well...do you mean that he's good on TV, that he performs well...or are you insinuating that he's phony?

My bottom-line: Olsteen may be a complete phony. He might be in this gig for the money, the nice home, the popularity. In his heart, he might consider his message to be tripe. He might even be a son of Perdition, for all we know. Nevertheless, God used a book the guy wrote (substitute donkey if it makes you feel better) to bring one of your spiritual brothers back to God. A family is in spiritual unity.

I say REJOICE

[Aristotle]

I've heard tell that people go inactive because of other people...and people are re-activated because of other people.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Aristotle@Jan 2 2006, 01:44 PM
I've heard tell that people go inactive because of other people...and people are re-activated because of other people.

[snapback]87936[/snapback]

Disagree.

Adults make there own actions and are responsible for their own behavior.

[Aristotle]

Unfortunately, that isn't necessarily true. A friend of mine's husband was the ward mission leader years back. She told me her husband was very discouraged because as fast as he reached people (through either conversion or reactivation), that's how quickly they were going inactive because they weren't fellowshipped in the ward. Some people also have a tendency to not think before they speak which may be hurtful to others, especially newcomers in the Church who have never been exposed to LDS society before. Personally, I find some of the behaviors amongst the LDS to be somewhat archaic. ;-)

[Snow]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain+Jan 2 2006, 01:43 PM-->

I'm certain God was in the mix of this husband's spiritual reconciliation. But me thinks you err in requiring that God use logic, intelligence, or the high socio-economic demographics of your church to draw men unto himself.[/b]

The poster was complaining about a blind sheep mentality though you may not have caught it since she used a Mormon phrase to describe it. And my response is that although the Church has it's share of unquestioning follow-along types who don't dig deeper and ponder what's really going on, there are, however, very thoughtful and inquisitive types you do study and pray and question and think for themselves.

I'm trying discern what really caused you to react here.

1. Maybe you don't like positive mental attitudes? I vote for the half-full glass.

I don't care for watered-down, religion-lite wrapped up in a shiny sugar-coating. Personally I don't much care for the Postive Mental Attitude industry either but besides me thinking it is mostly hype and nonsense, but doesn't bother me. What does bother me is combining it with the gospel and selling it too the masses.

2.* Maybe you don't think spiritual people should be rich? * Yet, you seem pleased that your church has reached a level of material prosperity, and that the LDS as a group are above average in this department.

I don't think I have ever made any sort of comment about Mormons material prosperity as individuals. I do like that the Church is well equipped with resources to accomplish it's mission. What I don't like is ostentatious showmen selling the gospel in $1200 suits.

Making money is fine. Making alot of money is fine. What I don't like is making a lot of money from religion.

3.* Maybe you don't like TV preachers?* Ah...now here's a strong possiblity. * Yet, I doubt you have it in for Billy Graham, or that you opposed the several public service announcements your church sponsored.* What did this Olsteen actually say or do that causes you to be so suspicious?* I don't think he's the begger weepy type, pleading for one more social security check dollar from the watchers.* Also, he's upbeat, non deroggatory towards other religions, he doesn't harp on sin much.* I rather thought that Olsteen would be the type of evangelical minister you could at least tolerate.

I don't think that Olsteen is creepy - he's not Paul Crouch, Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, etc, etc etc. They say he is the new Robert Schuller. I sometimes go to Church and hear the Schuller's services. I go for the music but certainly not the religion. It's a big show for the purpose of calling attention to the show. The gospel takes a back seat to the gloss and glitter. Olsteen reminds me of that. I am not, however, strongly opposed to him - just that he is not the kind of guy I look up to as a model.

4.* Maybe you don't like evangelicals?* Have you given up on us?

Not at all. What I don't like are antiMormon bigots and sleazy or glamour televangelists. It just seems like most of them are evangelicals.

5.* You think Olsteen's a showman?* Well...do you mean that he's good on TV, that he performs well...or are you insinuating that he's phony?

My bottom-line:* Olsteen may be a complete phony.* He might be in this gig for the money, the nice home, the popularity.* In his heart, he might consider his message to be tripe.* He might even be a son of Perdition, for all we know.* Nevertheless, God used a book the guy wrote (substitute donkey if it makes you feel better) to bring one of your spiritual brothers back to God.* A family is in spiritual unity.

I wouldn't know enough about him him to know if he is a phony. I don't much go for the sham of charisma.

If someone finds value in his message and so is motivated to grow closer to Christ, bully for them as far as it goes but growing closer to God cannot be attributed much to the Joels of the world. We have to do the work ourselves and there are a lot better real life examples close to home to learn from.

Beside I just think there is something a bit incongrous in the posters thinking. One one hand she laments the blind sheep unquestioning attitude but on the other admires the superficial charisma show.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Aristotle@Jan 2 2006, 05:19 PM
Unfortunately, that isn't necessarily true.* A friend of mine's husband was the ward mission leader years back.* She told me her husband was very discouraged because as fast as he reached people (through either conversion or reactivation), that's how quickly they were going inactive because they weren't fellowshipped in the ward.* Some people also have a tendency to not think before they speak which may be hurtful to others, especially newcomers in the Church who have never been exposed to LDS society before.* Personally, I find some of the behaviors amongst the LDS to be somewhat archaic.* ;-)

[snapback]87964[/snapback]

I am an adult. I am not a victim. I am responsible for my own actions and thoughts.

Maybe other adults are not responsible for their own actions and thoughts but if that were so, the courts should appoint them a legal guardian.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 2 2006, 07:44 PM

I am an adult. I am not a victim. I am responsible for my own actions and thoughts.

Maybe other adults are not responsible for their own actions and thoughts but if that were so, the courts should appoint them a legal guardian.

[snapback]87967[/snapback]

In the Visiting Teaching Message, "Come Back," Tambuli, Aug. 1989:

We can bring less-active members back to the fold if we do as President Benson suggests: “We must manifest the same love to others that the Good Shepherd has for all of us. … The sheep—some distracted, some indifferent, some preoccupied—must be found and loved back into activity.” (Ibid., page 4.)


Interesting, I became active in the Church again in 1989 because of stalwart visiting teachers who continued to knock on my door. They persisted, until one day I returned their call and invited them into my home. Were it not for their dedication, I may not have become active in the Church again.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 2 2006, 06:41 PM
If someone finds value in his message and so* is motivated to grow closer to Christ, bully for them as far as it goes but growing closer to God cannot be attributed much to the Joels of the world. We have to do the work ourselves and there are a lot better real life examples close to home to learn from.

Congratulations! You've inspired a new poll. I've wondered lately how helpful Christian cultural products and events are to LDS adherents.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Aristotle@Jan 2 2006, 05:58 PM


Interesting, I became active in the Church again in 1989 because of stalwart* visiting teachers who continued to knock on my door.* They persisted, until one day I returned their call and invited them into my home.* Were it not for their dedication, I may not have become active in the Church again.

[snapback]87970[/snapback]

Then maybe at the day of judgement they'll get all the blessings and you will go to a lesser heaven.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 2 2006, 09:14 PM

Then maybe at the day of judgement they'll get all the blessings and you will go to a lesser heaven.

[snapback]87982[/snapback]

Is the Prodigal Son going to a lesser heaven?