The Nature of God

[xanmad33]

I posted int the apology thread my beliefs about God/Jesus
I'm not going to repost them here because I was warned that they are opposed to LDS teachings therefore they really should't have been posted.

Can you clarify the points that are opposed to lds teachings? and why?


P.S. I looove to talk religion, I am loving but I am also blunt in my delivery, please do not read my lack of emotion as anything other than my attempt to discuss things without hurting feelings

Thank you for everyones love and honest answers in posts past, I would love to build friendship with you all through good, honest, thought provoking conversation, thank you!


PSS--I would also like to stay on point if we can thanks

[skalenfehl]

We believe that Jesus Christ is Jehova. I'll post more. I've been going over the Isaiah verses in your page. (I love the book of Isaiah!)

[xanmad33]

In the page I just posted in the Apology thread?

[skalenfehl]

Isa. 9: 6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I love this scripture and Handel's musical rendition praising Christ!


Isa. 11: 1
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Jesse was the father of David; reference is made to the royal Davidic genealogical line in which Jesus is eventually born. Also from what I have learned in my studies is that Joseph's Genealogy is essentially Mary's Genealogy for they were cousins (or at least shared a lineage). Jesus inherited from His mother the blood of David and thereafter the right to David's throne. Had Judah been a free and independent nation ruled by the rightful sovereign, Joseph the carpenter would have been the next king and his successor would have been Jesus Christ.

[skalenfehl]

Originally Posted by xanmad33

In the page I just posted in the Apology thread?

Oh, oops. Am I going the wrong way? I'll need to check the apology thread again. I thought we were talking about that web page you posted "chapter 4".

[xanmad33]

I too love Isaiah

Let me ask you, did you finish my post in the apology thread? Can you tell me what you disagree with?
Or Maybe z-todd can?

[skalenfehl]

Originally Posted by xanmad33

I too love Isaiah

Let me ask you, did you finish my post in the apology thread? Can you tell me what you disagree with?
Or Maybe z-todd can?

I'll check it out.

[skalenfehl]

Yes, we believe that Jesus is God, He is the Father and the Son as you believe and as I have so far read in your web page. We also believe that He has a Father in Heaven. There are also scriptures to support this, such as when Christ was baptized and a voice came from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". Also when Stephen was martyred in the New Testament, he saw Christ and God, His Father, before he died. Also in John chapter 17 when Christ offers His intercessory prayer to His Father He prayed that his disciples would be one also as Christ and the Father were one. That was also to mean one in unity and purpose (man's salvation). Verses 20-23 more specifically:


John 17: 20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


So we believe that Christ is Jehovah and our Father, but we also believe that Christ has a Father in Heaven and that they are two separate and distinct personages.

[xanmad33]

Originally Posted by skalenfehl

Yes, we believe that Jesus is God, He is the Father and the Son as you believe and as I have so far read in your web page. We also believe that He has a Father in Heaven. There are also scriptures to support this, such as when Christ was baptized and a voice came from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased".

I don't see this as concrete proof, certainly not a verse to base a religion on.
I personally see it as more of a reason to study the word and see what else the Bible says about the Nature of God. God being omnipresent and omnipotent, could certainly do anything, even encourage the physical manifestation of himself, especially since right after that Jesus went to the desert to be tempted by the devil.

Also when Stephen was martyred in the New Testament, he saw Christ and God, His Father, before he died.

This verse says that Stephen saw the "glory of God" and Jesus at the right hand of the father- Not that he actually saw a distinct person that was God.

What do you say to the other verses that say that No man has seen the father (John 1:18)
such as-- "NO man has seen God at anytime" (John 1:18; I John 4:12).

--God "The Father," is a Spirit and as such is invisible (Colossians 1: 15; I Timothy 1:17; Hebrews 11:27).

Stephen did not see two Gods... He did not say, "I see Jesus standing beside God." The term, "right hand of God" is from Exodus 15:6-- Moses and the Israelites claimed to have "seen the right hand of God." But God is a Spirit with neither right nor left hand; what they saw was a manifestation of God's power and glory. As an Israelite, Stephen knew what "the right hand of God" meant. He saw the Son of Man in power and glory.

Also in John chapter 17 when Christ offers His intercessory prayer to His Father He prayed that his disciples would be one also as Christ and the Father were one. That was also to mean one in unity and purpose (man's salvation). Verses 20-23 more specifically:


John 17: 20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I do not see how that verse proves that they are seperate personages?

When there is a confusing verse, you must search the rest of scripture to clear up the confusion. The FULL weight of scripture must be applied. There is nowhere in those verses where it states there are two or more gods. These instances, ilbeit difficult to understand, in no way prove a 2 or more god theory.

So we believe that Christ is Jehovah and our Father, but we also believe that Christ has a Father in Heaven and that they are two separate and distinct personages.

Is that belief based on these scriptures alone?

What about all the other scrupture I quoted on the other page?

this is interesting though, thanks for discussing your beliefs with me

[skalenfehl]

I'll address each point separately, if that's ok. It will give me time to type up the next response while you reference what I have posted.