Questions for Mormons

[prisonchaplain]

Okay, the title is a cheap attention-getter. It is the most common title for a bunch of questions about horses in ancient North America, alleged "fortune seeking" by Joseph Smith, and an assortment of other detail questions meant to undermine the faith of LDS.

What I list before are not really so much questions FOR Mormons, but rather, the thoughts that go through the mind of evangelicals who take your faith and their own seriously. And, perhaps, that's even too grand. They are my thoughts, my inquiries.

1. Why am I so sure about Jesus, about the Apostle Paul, and about the gospel writers, but so uncertain about Joseph Smith?

2. Could the church have really been apostate for 1800 years?

3. Could the church have gotten so many doctrines so wrong for so long?

4. Does a church that, imho, suffers some of the same personality flaws as my own, and many other churches, really stand out as the one that is restored?

5. Can the Bible really be reconciled with polytheism?

6. Are we really eternal essences?

7. I can understand the ban on drinking, smoking, gambling...but coffee?

8. Modern prophecy is not hard to accept. Christians often claim to have seen angels, dreams, and visions. But an open canon?

9. Is there room in the New Testament writings for an element of faith practice that is so sacred it is kept from outsiders (Temple rituals)?

10. Did Jesus really mean for a single, highly structured and hierarchical church organization to dispense spiritual authority (Catholics have no issues with this one)?

More and more, I tire of the "Questions for Mormons" threads that are full of pot shots, innuendo, and the type of questions that seem more appropriate for political negative advertising then respectful faith dialogue. I hope these off-the-cuff concerns prove more thoughtful and useful.

[skalenfehl]

I can only imagine the giant leap of faith required to defy 1800 years of traditional beliefs.

[Andrew777]

There's a great book called "Are Mormons Christians?" by Stephen E. Robinson that can answer a lot of the questions you posted, probably better then anyone here could.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by skalenfehl

I can only imagine the giant leap of faith required to defy 1800 years of traditional beliefs.

And perhaps this is a good part of why #1 is first. The Church has sustained 2000 years of persecution, theological battles, poverty, wealth, war and peace. The teachings of the NT have thrived in all environments. Joseph Smith's visions and calling have proven prosperious, but remain unaccepted by most of the Christian world. Of course, #s do not prove accuracy or truth, but history does help explain why most Christians find it easier to accept the ancient truths of the Bible than the comparatively recent works of Joseph Smith.

[skalenfehl]

Perhaps this is also why the Jews had such difficulty accepting Christ as their messiah after about 4,000 years of testimony from the prophets before them. Their own traditional beliefs caused them to miss the very messiah they longed for. Food for thought.

[prisonchaplain]

Skalenfehl makes a strong point. However, Joseph Smith never claimed to be a Messiah, nor the 2nd coming. Jews were indeed looking for the Savior. Christians had no expectation of a latter day prophet who would come to declare the Church in an 1800 year rut of apostasy. Jesus may not have been what the Jews expected of their Savior, but his coming well was announced in detail.

In some ways, Joseph Smith, if a true prophet, is more in the line of Moses, imho.

[Andrew777]

There are parts of the bible that are used to show a prediction of a latter day prophet and that early Christians believed an apostasy would come and a restoration would be needed. It is possible some Christians including the apostles saw the apostasy on it's way.

[prisonchaplain]

While I'm somewhat aware of those sections, they do not come together to create the type of expectation that was widespread amongst the Hebrews at the time of Jesus. Nevertheless, your point combines with Skalenfehl's to keep my #1 question in the op an interesting one.

[Elgama]

I love your questions - I hope you don't mind if I do something and do my Questions for Christians unsure whether or not to make it a seperate thread, or here -they are questions that went through my mind as I was looking for my baptism - I was tempted by many religions, felt a strong call to dedicate my life to Christ so couldn't abandon Christianity and was getting seriously confused, went through my journal and I attended 31 different forms of Christianity and at one point was trying to attend 6 at once, but I have been dying to actually ask them since all the Questions for Mormons threads but if I introduce them in those Questions for Mormons threads people feel got at I guess this is a better idea - I gonna do a new thread.

Thanks PC its why I said what I did about you and DrT you are rare Christians, amazing human beings for Christians to dialogue with Mormons without accusations is very difficult because of the very obvious one of us has to be right assumptions. Also because accusations about the God you worship can come in thats when I struggle to be civil because whilst I know He doesn't need my protection, but when you Love someone a desire to protect happens.

-Charley

[Elgama]

This is how I see things, some of these answers are not meant to be antagonistic but reflect my own disillusionment with Christianity as it stood and are why I left it behind:

1. Why am I so sure about Jesus, about the Apostle Paul, and about the gospel writers, but so uncertain about Joseph Smith?

-its much easier to sustain a prophet from many years ago than one from 200 years ago or one alive today, we know too much about them with Paul all you really have is his writings - if all we had was the Standard Works from Joseph Smith the leap would be easier. You have seen all the posts were people struggle to sustain the men on a local level as men of God - the problem is you see them everyday and their faults, It is much much easier for me 1000s of miles away to sustain President Monson because I don't know him than for a member of his family who he maybe was tired and shouted at. I have very good online friend who left the church when she saw President Hinckley backstage at something snapping at them - she doesn't agree with me that a man who at the time was in his 80s travelling like he does should be expected to get snappy at times.

2. Could the church have really been apostate for 1800 years?

Yes I personally believe it was part of Gods Plan - the basic Gospel Message was taken round the world and more people heard of Christ because it was taken up by the Roman Empire, that could not have happened without the apostasy. Also if the apostasy didn't happen aren't you Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/St Thomas Christian etc?, In life many things start out good, suffer trials or darkness then out of that comes something even better -

3. Could the church have gotten so many doctrines so wrong for so long?

Yes they obviously did, there is not one baptism which was my biggie because I was looking for baptism by immersion, there is also a huge number of Christian denominations (not all) that place a block between the membership and God - they get in the way of that strong relationship developing. Because the men at the top in the Roman Catholic church prevented the membership from even understanding the Bible for a long time (keeping it in Latin) - that left room for men to do what they wanted.

4. Does a church that, imho, suffers some of the same personality flaws as my own, and many other churches, really stand out as the one that is restored?


For me yes because it makes that claim its worth praying about and investigating, churches will always have personality flaws even true ones the Bible shows that, none of the prophets were perfect - Jonah was bonkers but he was still called. I love Peter but he did chop of the soldiers ear, deny Christ 3 times, etc

5. Can the Bible really be reconciled with polytheism?

One thing the thread with Xanmad has shown me is I am a lot more monotheist than I thought I was lol ultimately I don't think it matters the Godhead is what it is and how we interpret scriptures doesn't matter we can't change God by thinking differently, there are scriptures that mention gods in the plural and i don't understand it a lot but I have read that whilst used in the singular Elohim is actually plural which fits with my own belief that God is both


6. Are we really eternal essences?

yes but no good reason for believing except I always felt it

7. I can understand the ban on drinking, smoking, gambling...but coffee?

This is where you need to start with Faith in the Gospel - do I trust the current prophet if so then I can be sure there is a good reason for it. The Jews obeyed Kosher because God said so and science is starting to bear it out as a wise health code especially in the days before fridges and disinfectant


8. Modern prophecy is not hard to accept. Christians often claim to have seen angels, dreams, and visions. But an open canon?

I personally found a closed canon more difficult to accept I do not believe at any point that God would leave us alone in 2008 with so many dilemmas the Bible couldn't have covered.

9. Is there room in the New Testament writings for an element of faith practice that is so sacred it is kept from outsiders (Temple rituals)?

Thanks for saying sacred not secret its beautiful to see the thought in your questions.

Yes I believe so but I was unsure until I actually went through the Temple now I have no doubt that the New and Old Testament had similar temple ceremonies before that I knew my Bible now I understand it beyond anything I could have dreamed and it became deeper and more sacred. It obviously was sacred because nowhere does it say this is the endowment ceremony but like members today will teach things they learned in there without revealing the source its in the Bible.

10. Did Jesus really mean for a single, highly structured and hierarchical church organization to dispense spiritual authority (Catholics have no issues with this one)?

Yes its how the head and body work so smoothly - I see it at work in my church and I love it. For me the organisation has the Christ that lead His apostles, cared for Zaccheus, blessed the children stamped all over it

-Charley