The Rapture!!!

[User-Removed]

Please...The Rapture is no more biblical...than say the Trinity...

Folks need to get away from the philosophies of Man....

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Please...The Rapture is no more biblical...than say the Trinity...

Folks need to get away from the philosophies of Man....

Oh.

So...the Rapture (which I believe will happen) is allegedly not true because the Trinity (which I believe best describes God's nature) is allegedly not true...because...men have written philosophies espousing these beliefs?

I'm not sure that any of those statements are connected. The validity of the Rapture has no baring on the validity of the Trinity, and whether or not men have written teachings/philosophies about those teachings has no impact on their veracity.

Conclusion: I disagree.

[lilered]

What is the difference between The Rapture and Tribulation?

[Mullenite]

Quote:

By Skousen

TO REBUILD AMERICA AFTER THE CLEANSING

There will be a gigantic task to perform after America has been cleansed of her wickedness but the wreckage and ruin of a whole civilization has been left behind.

THE FIRST GROUP

The first group will be the righteous saints whom the Lord has preserved. All these will have been disciplined in Priesthood principles and will have studied God’s law so they will know’ what to do. In very short order, the other groups will lean upon this first group for guidance.

THE SECOND GROUP

The second group will be made up of the members of God’s kingdom from all over the world . After America is cleansed and the clouds of the second dictatorship are beginning to replace the first dictatorship the Saints will be anxious to rally when the Priesthood leaders sound the trumpet and call them to gather to America. The Lord says:

"Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father, to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name. Yea, and. then shall the work commence, with the Father, among all nations, in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance."

And of course for the members of The Church, that’s America! The Lord speaks of these gathering Saints from all over the world in a modern revelation:

"And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among ALL NATIONS, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy." 53

THE THIRD GROUP

The third group to help reconstruct the western hemisphere will be the righteous gentiles who survive the cleansing. This is an interesting group of people. They are of many faiths. They love the Lord, they bow the knee in contemplation of his coming. They admire his Church and love the Saints. But they don’t join the Church. Nevertheless, they want to live under God’s Law and be part of God’s kingdom. The amazing part is that God extends an invitation to the righteous gentiles to be part of the political kingdom of God.

Brigham Young knew that a lot of the Saints would expect the kingdom of God to be only members of the church, but President Young said that is not the way the Lord planned it. Here are his words:

"The Kingdom of God [Those living under God’s Law] consists in correct principles; and it mattereth not what a man’s religious faith is; whether he be a Presbyterian, or a Methodist, or a Baptist, or a Latter—day Saint or ‘Mormon,’ or a Catholic or Episcopalian, or Mohammedan, or even pagan, or anything else, if he WILL BOW THE KNEE AND WITH HIS tongue CONFESS THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, and will support good and wholesome laws for the regulation of society, we hail him as a brother, and will stand by him while he stands by us in these things; for every man’s religious faith is a matter between his own soul and his God alone." 54

THE FOURTH GROUP

Finally, there is the fourth group will help restore the western hemisphere. These are the peacemakers . They are people in other parts of the world who see they are about to be drafted into Prince Gog’s vast, second dictatorship.

They may have even heard that he has ambitions to set up an army of 200,000,000. So all of these are allowed to flee to America. The Lord says:

"And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take up his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety."

How grateful these peace—loving families will be after Prince Gog gets going with the second dictatorship. The scripture says:

"And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT SHALL NOT BE AT WAR ONE WITH ANOTHER."

SETTING UP THE NEW ORDER OF THINGS

Once all of these choice groups of people are in place they will set about building the New Jerusalem and setting up ideal Zion cities from one end of the American continent to the other. To accomplish this, the whole structure of government and economics will be changed as well as the adoption of a highly elevated society. Here are the highlights:

1. The people will be organized by families into tens, fifties, hundreds and thousands. The unit of around one hundred families will be called a secular, non—denominational "ward" similar to the Anglo Saxons and ancient Israel.

2. The judges or captains over each unit of ten, fifty, hundred and thousand families, etc. shall be elected each year and will be selectively nominated by the supreme councils and their officers as described in Exodus, chapter 1. This procedure eliminates the need for political parties.

3. The people will be governed by the original inspired Constitution as revealed to the Founding Fathers and endorsed by the Lord in 1834 .

4. Civil and criminal law are to be administered according to the law revealed to Moses on Mount Sinai as set forth principle by principle in chapters three to nine inclusive in the author’s text, The Majesty of God’s Law, Ensign Publishing Company,1996, pp.3


It gives me so much HOPE for the future!

[Mullenite]

Quote:
Skousen

A SURPRISE BEGINNING

Elder Widtsoe started me out about a hundred miles away from my original question concerning the crucifixion.

He asked me if I knew that everything in existence was made out of just two things. Well, I had just graduated from high school and I had learned in chemistry about elements. I told him there weren't just two. Chemists had identified over a hundred different elements.

"Oh," he said, "each element is make up of millions of these two tiny particles that I am talking about." So I asked him what these two tiny particles were.

He said: "When the prophet Lehi was on his death bed, he explained to his sons that everything in existence is made out of these two tiny building blocks. See if you can find what he called them in the book of 2 Nephi."

I asked him why he didn't give me the chapter and verse, he said, "Oh, I wouldn't deprive you of the thrill of finding them." This was characteristic of my entire training under John A. Widtsoe. He would describe the principle and tell me ABOUT where to find it and then leave it up to me. I finally located Lehi's statement. He said:

"There is a God, and he hath created ALL things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, BOTH THINGS TO ACT AND THINGS TO BE ACTED UPON." (2 Nephi 2:14)

Elder Widtsoe then said, "Heavenly Father has called the things which acts by a certain name and the things which is acted upon by another name. These are the two building blocks out of which the Lord has made everything in the entire universe. See if you can find out what he calls them. You will find these names about three fourths the way through the Doctrine and Covenants."

I really had to dig for those verses. Finally I found the names of these building blocks in section 93, verses 29-33.

The Lord said that the thing which "acts " is called an intelligence and that which is acted upon" is called "element" or primal mater. He said these building blocks always existed. They are eternal. (D&C 93:29,33) They cannot be created and they cannot be destroyed, But they can be organized, DISorganized and REorganized.

Since the intelligence is the ingredient that "acts", it is assumed that the elements are inert, or as some have said, "It is just "stuff." However, Brigham Young said that these tiny bits of primal matter or inert particles of stuff, are "capacitated to receive Intelligence." (Journal of Discourses, 7;2) In fact, Brigham Young-who was tutored by the prophet Joseph Smith-seems to have had a complete grasp of the nature of intelligence and its association with primal matter. He said:

There is an eternity of matter, and it is all acted upon and filled with a portion of divinity.[God's organized intelligences,] Matter is to exist; it cannot be annihilated. Eternity is without bounds and is filled with matter; and there is no such thing as empty space. And matter is capacitated to receive intelligence....matter can be organized and brought forth into intelligence, and to possess more intelligence..and to continue to increase in intelligence.learn those principles that organized matter [can be made] into animals, vegetables, and into intelligent beings capacitated to receive intelligence." [Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 2-3]

IS THERE INTELLIGENCE IN EVERYTHING?

These principles were thoroughly understood by Joseph Smith and the early brethren. As Apostle John A. Widtsoe said:

"It was clearly comprehended by the Prophet (Joseph Smith) and his associates that intelligence is the vivifying force of all creation-animate or inanimate-the rock and tree and beast and man, have ascending degrees of intelligence."(John A. Widtsoe, Joseph Smith, Seeker After Truth, Deseret News Press, pp. 150-151)

And as Brigham Young Said:

"There is life [or intelligence] in all matter throughout the vast extent of all the eternities; it is in the rock, the sand, in water, air, the gasses, and in short, in every description and organization of matter, whether it be solid, liquid, or gaseous, particle operating with particle." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 277)

HOW THE FATHER MANAGES HIS VAST HOST OF INTELLIGENCES

These intelligences have each attached themselves to particles of matter. After this has occurred Abraham refers to them as "organized intelligences." (Abraham 3:22) God can talk to these intelligences and after they have been thoroughly trained, they can conform to the highly complex instruction they receive from the Father, the Son, or members of the Priesthood authorized to perform certain acts under the guidance of the Father or the Son.

The Lord says this elaborate process of training this host of eternal entities to conform to the elaborate complexity of God's design is by having "intelligence cleave unto intelligence" gradually identifying these complex patterns and have mapped out their intricate composition. The patterns are unique for each entity throughout nature and are referred to as their DNA.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Oh.

So...the Rapture (which I believe will happen) is allegedly not true because the Trinity (which I believe best describes God's nature) is allegedly not true...because...men have written philosophies espousing these beliefs?

I'm not sure that any of those statements are connected. The validity of the Rapture has no baring on the validity of the Trinity, and whether or not men have written teachings/philosophies about those teachings has no impact on their veracity.

Conclusion: I disagree.

GO BACK...and re-read my post...then we can discuss it.

[User-Removed]

Mullenite...WOW...you are dead bang right on....God Bless Cleon (RIP) and God Bless Elder Widstoe!!!!

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by lilered

What is the difference between The Rapture and Tribulation?

Rapture = catching away of true Christians to meet Jesus. Some believe this will happen before the Tribulation (see below), and some believe it will be at the end of the Tribulation, right before the judgement.

Tribulation = A seven year time of troubles during which an Antichrist leader will arise, controling much of the world. He will require everyone to take a mark of loyalty, the infamous 666. True believers will be greatly persecuted, and many will be martyred by beheading.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

GO BACK...and re-read my post...then we can discuss it.

It was pretty cryptic, and I did my best to figure it out. I still get that you have a problem with "the philosophies of men," with the Trinity and with the Rapture...and I still don't see how the three are connected.

[User-Removed]

Prisonchaplin...

The Rapture is nowhere found in the Bible...Neither is the Trinity. Both are the works of men...not God...