The Rapture!!!

[Mullenite]

The Rapture - An LDS Perspective
The concept of the rapture wasn't really popularized until 1908 when an evangelist named William Blackstone wrote a book called "Jesus is coming" that sold more than a million copies. He went out and found all sorts of quotes and ideas from former bible historians and scholars to support the idea of the rapture (the entire concept is built around scriptural versus, and I know Isaiah was a big influence on the theory). The word "rapture" didn't occur in print until a year later (1909) with the Scofield Reference Bible.

In its purest form, the concept of the rapture basically says Christ will remove the righteous from the earth prior to his coming to burn the wicked.

There are, however, two very different schools of thought on "the rapture": Those who believe the rapture we occur PRIOR to all of the horrible tribulations and events described in association with the apocalypse (they are dubbed "pre-tribulation rapturists") and those who believe it will occur AFTER all of the trials (post-tribulation rapturists).

The LDS peopel like to dismiss the idea of a rapture completely, except our doctrine clearly places us in the camp of the post-tribulation rapturists, since we know Christ WILL remove the righteous from the the earth immediately prior to the millenial burning. Other post-tribbers have slightly different ideas about what sequence of events will lead up to the rapture, but for LDS people, there can be no debate.

It's interesting that for a pre-trib rapture, there is a surprising amount of scriptural evidence to support it -- they simply misunderstand the meaning of the versus.

No single point of doctrine has done more to prevent good Christian people from preparing for the last days than the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. I think MOST good Christians believe Christ's return (and the rapture) are imminent, but have NO preparations whatsoever -- What's the point in preparing if God intends to remove them from the earth and they don't have to suffer through all of that, anyway? Satan is a very clever person, isn't he??

[WillowTheWhisp]

Preparing doesn't just have to mean preparing for 'the big one' though - there could be blots of smaller emergency situations that preparedness comes into.

[Hemidakota]

I can never understand why they believe the 'righteous will be removed from the earth'. Why? Who will be doing the missionary work and ushering in the Terrestrial state?

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Mullenite

The Rapture - An LDS Perspective
The concept of the rapture wasn't really popularized until 1908 when an evangelist named William Blackstone wrote a book called "Jesus is coming" that sold more than a million copies. He went out and found all sorts of quotes and ideas from former bible historians and scholars to support the idea of the rapture (the entire concept is built around scriptural versus, and I know Isaiah was a big influence on the theory). The word "rapture" didn't occur in print until a year later (1909) with the Scofield Reference Bible.

In its purest form, the concept of the rapture basically says Christ will remove the righteous from the earth prior to his coming to burn the wicked.

There are, however, two very different schools of thought on "the rapture": Those who believe the rapture we occur PRIOR to all of the horrible tribulations and events described in association with the apocalypse (they are dubbed "pre-tribulation rapturists") and those who believe it will occur AFTER all of the trials (post-tribulation rapturists).

The LDS peopel like to dismiss the idea of a rapture completely, except our doctrine clearly places us in the camp of the post-tribulation rapturists, since we know Christ WILL remove the righteous from the the earth immediately prior to the millenial burning. Other post-tribbers have slightly different ideas about what sequence of events will lead up to the rapture, but for LDS people, there can be no debate.

It's interesting that for a pre-trib rapture, there is a surprising amount of scriptural evidence to support it -- they simply misunderstand the meaning of the versus.

No single point of doctrine has done more to prevent good Christian people from preparing for the last days than the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. I think MOST good Christians believe Christ's return (and the rapture) are imminent, but have NO preparations whatsoever -- What's the point in preparing if God intends to remove them from the earth and they don't have to suffer through all of that, anyway? Satan is a very clever person, isn't he??

I am concerned that interpertations of a rapture would indicate that righteous do not suffer at the hands of the wicked. Who can testify that such a doctrine is true? who can say that they have not suffered because they are righteous? Not me!

The Traveler

[bert10]

The Second Coming is not the LAST DAY! But a beginning. And only the most wicked shall be removed from the earth. I will not take sides on who is right.

For I tell you the truth......there shall be many who do not even know Christ nor had previously believed in Him shall be left alive. If Christ came to destroy all the wicked then the earth would be left empty except for a few million souls. Even so, many shall remain who at first shall not recognized Christ even when He shows them His wounds.

Zechariah 13:6 - And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

It has been taught that only Christians shall remain. I say to you that many shall enter into heaven before today' s Christians.

For in Zechariah there are dire warnings...for those who will not keep the feast of the Tabernacle. The Muslims and other religions at first will not wish to keep this feast not believing that Christ has come. For who shall see the Lord come except they who are His elects which are so few? So, they who do not keep the feast of the Tabernacle shall receive of the plagues of Egypt until they do so.

NOTE on the Feast of the Tabernacle: God shall required it of every man, family, people and nations. It is written every knee shall bow unto God.

Zechariah 14:19 - This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


It is so hard to continually fight those who constantly seek to interpret the gospel according to their own beliefs and agendas. Why do you think that Jesus said that His Coming would be like a Thief in the Night?

Because only they who hear God in their heart [Are the Elects and Saints of God] that shall be prepared for it like Noah was. All the rest will continue to interpret the gospel and the prophecies according to their own understanding and so they shall be taken unprepared. In fact men shall marry and give in marriage at that time.

Jesus is coming to set up His kingdom in the hearts of those who shall survive the coming calamities. The Kingdom of God is in our heart right now. And what God will do is remove all the obstacle that prevents us at this time from establishing it. Such as false religions and governments who are run by the wicked and the rich. etc.

The last day shall occur at the end of the Millennium in the final battle concerning the Sons of Light against the Sons of the Darkness.

We shall be called to come out of Babylon into Zions which are places of safety. You can call them ARKs.

Revelation 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

At no time in the past did the Lord removed the Righteous from having to face the calamities and exercise faith unto their salvation. Faith always came first. At the flood by faith Noah was saved when he built the Ark. In Goshen Israel was kept safe and even prospered while the Egyptians were made to suffer.

If God can save Noah and keep Israel safe in the midst of Egypt and her plagues...then He shall do so again for those who shall gather to those places of safety called Zions or arks.

The Angel said that the Coming of the Lord shall be like the ascensions. Which was done,,quietly, peacefully and only a few believers to witness it.

Acts 1:11 - Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Peace be unto you
bert10

Originally Posted by Mullenite

The Rapture - An LDS Perspective
The concept of the rapture wasn't really popularized until 1908 when an evangelist named William Blackstone wrote a book called "Jesus is coming" that sold more than a million copies. He went out and found all sorts of quotes and ideas from former bible historians and scholars to support the idea of the rapture (the entire concept is built around scriptural versus, and I know Isaiah was a big influence on the theory). The word "rapture" didn't occur in print until a year later (1909) with the Scofield Reference Bible.

In its purest form, the concept of the rapture basically says Christ will remove the righteous from the earth prior to his coming to burn the wicked.

There are, however, two very different schools of thought on "the rapture": Those who believe the rapture we occur PRIOR to all of the horrible tribulations and events described in association with the apocalypse (they are dubbed "pre-tribulation rapturists") and those who believe it will occur AFTER all of the trials (post-tribulation rapturists).

The LDS peopel like to dismiss the idea of a rapture completely, except our doctrine clearly places us in the camp of the post-tribulation rapturists, since we know Christ WILL remove the righteous from the the earth immediately prior to the millenial burning. Other post-tribbers have slightly different ideas about what sequence of events will lead up to the rapture, but for LDS people, there can be no debate.

It's interesting that for a pre-trib rapture, there is a surprising amount of scriptural evidence to support it -- they simply misunderstand the meaning of the versus.

No single point of doctrine has done more to prevent good Christian people from preparing for the last days than the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. I think MOST good Christians believe Christ's return (and the rapture) are imminent, but have NO preparations whatsoever -- What's the point in preparing if God intends to remove them from the earth and they don't have to suffer through all of that, anyway? Satan is a very clever person, isn't he??

[Mullenite]

There No Place in the BiBle, SAYS the WORD RAPTURE!!!!!!!!

[bert10]

Rapture as such is not in the bible......... But there is such a thing as Translation or transfiguration....which is what happens when one receives the promises of Eternal life in the flesh. So relax...if a person is not worthy to receive the promises Eternal Life in the Flesh....today...then he is not any more worthy if the Lord were to come tomorrow. Eymology from Wikipedia..... "Rapture", when used in eschatological terms, is an English word used in place of the Latin word raeptius; taken from the Vulgate, which in turn is a translation of the Koine Greek word harpazo, which is found in the Greek New Testament manuscripts of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In many modern English translations of the Bible, harpazo is translated; "caught up", or "taken away". "Harpazo" \har-pad'-zo\ Koine Greek; "forcibly snatched away", "taken for oneself". From Wikipedia """"""""the Rapture is the name given to a future event in which Jesus Christ will descend from Heaven, accompanied by the spirits of all the saints of God, both from the pre-incarnation period and after, who have passed on prior to this event, and then the bodily remains of these saints are transported from the Earth to meet the Lord and be rejoined with their corresponding spirits in the air. Immediately after this, all Christians alive on the earth are simultaneously transported to meet the Lord and those who have preceded them in the air. All are transformed into immortal bodies like Jesus' body, often referred to as the "resurrection body". This doctrine gained popularity in the 1830s, and more recently in the 1970s, with proponents of the premillennialist, and in particular the dispensationalist, interpretations of scripture. However, proponents of the doctrine have argued that it can be found in the early Church fathers and the New Testament. There is much disagreement amongst rapture proponents over when the rapture will occur in relation to the Tribulation, a seven-year period preceding the second coming of Christ to the earth, or indeed, if the duration of the Tribulation will be seven years or only a 3 1/2 year period. Some understand the tribulation of Matthew 24 as having already taken place in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem. (see Preterism). Three different views predominate. The first is that it will take place sometime prior to the Tribulation. The second is that it will take place mid-way through the Tribulation. The third is that it will take place after the Tribulation, when Christ comes to earth to establish His kingdom, the Kingdom of God, taking over rulership of the world for 1,000 years. (see Millennialism). A fourth view has recently developed, called the Pre-Wrath view."""""""

Originally Posted by Mullenite

There No Place in the BiBle, SAYS the WORD RAPTURE!!!!!!!!

Peace be unto you bert0

[Still_Small_Voice]

Originally Posted by bert10

Rapture as such is not in the bible......... But there is such a thing as Translation or transfiguration....which is what happens when one receives the promises of Eternal life in the flesh. So relax...if a person is not worthy to receive the promises Eternal Life in the Flesh....today...then he is not any more worthy if the Lord were to come tomorrow.

I don't know if you are intermingling "calling and election made sure" and "transfiguration". They are two separate blessings that the Lord can give to whomever He will.

[bert10]

Hi! STILL_SMALL_VOICE ....First I would like to begin to say....that I like your nick. I spend much of my time teaching the Philistines on This.

"The Calling and election made sure"...as in the what is done in the temple?

Well we won't go into what goes on in the temple even though the LDS newspaper printed the entire Ordnances when they were first given. I guess it was a one time shot type deal.

The ordinances that one receives in the temple are only the promises of it Based on only .......if one "Overcomes the world". I know of none who have received those ordinances that did not get sick, continued to aged, have accidents nor received a new Name and a white Stone and be taught the Hidden Manna.

Here are the promises of Christ that will happen when one overcomes the world....

Revelation 2:17 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

To him that overcometh:

1. Will I give to eat of the hidden manna. [which is reserved for the Elect.
2. And will give him a white Stone.
3. And a NEW NAME.

These are only some of the things promised to them that have overcome the world. And Trust me...no matter how many ordinances one has in the temple...about 'Election and exaltation made sure'....if one has not overcome the world then God is not bound by the promises received in the Temple. For the Lord Himself has said...We must first do as He hath said.

D&C 82:10 - I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

Another wonderful promise dealing with Overcoming the World....which is also dealing with the Heavenly Manna is: that He shall NOT DIE.

He who eats of the bread of eternal life that comes from God shall eventually be filled with Eternal Life and these....shall not die ever, nor taste of death. Read Paul how it is done..."Twinkling of an eye".

John 6:50 - This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

Here is another thing that is not taught.....That if any who receives the promises of Eternal Life in the flesh....cannot die unless they literally give up their life. For no powers on the earth or below the earth or in heaven can take the life from a person once God has given it to Him. Many early Christians did receive it but chose to willingly die in the Arenas not asking to be delivered by God in order to get a better resurrection.

Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

As far as I know the "Election made sure" is the same thing as Translation or transfiguration. For no person can receive the Second Comforter which is Jesus Christ in person delivering the promises without first overcoming the world. On this day, which for most; it is their last day on the earth for God shall say...."Ask whatsoever you will and I will do it" Some like the three nephites for example were given missions on th earth. John the Beloved also received permission to be a ministering Spirit and not undergo the change in fullness until after the plan of salvation is finished.

Now John and the Three Nephites have received the promises of Eternal Life and they ceased to be sick, and they ceased to grow old. And had the power of the kingdom for the kingdom of God was with them. And anyone who receives the promises shall ask whatsoever they will and God shall immediately do it. Just as Jesus could have asked for legions of Roman soldiers to delivered him.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Three 1838-39 p.150
"When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses."

I think that is as far as I wish to go into this. You are wondering how I know all this stuff? Simple....I believe in the promises and actually live them in faith which are.......ask, seek and knock.

Originally Posted by Still_Small_Voice

I don't know if you are intermingling "calling and election made sure" and "transfiguration". They are two separate blessings that the Lord can give to whomever He will.

Peace be unto you
bert10

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by Mullenite

There No Place in the BiBle, SAYS the WORD RAPTURE!!!!!!!!

Perhaps not in any English translations. However, if I'm not mistaken, the word does come from Greek, and translates as "catching away." I happen to subscribe to the pre-Tribulation Rapture. We do believe in preparing for Christ's return, and the Rapture. Not so much by storing away food or provisions, but by winning souls, while the hour remains. Also, please know that we understand that millions of Christians have and will go through tribulations. What to say of our Sudanese believers, who've endured rape, torture, and sometimes death? What of Chinese believers, incarcerated for proclaiming Christ? Likewise, some who've converted in Muslim lands, and been jailed or killed for defaming the prophet or their religion?