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Old 04-16-2008, 10:14 AM
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Default Do you think that God once was a man?

Do you think that God once was a man?
Lorenzo Snow, a President of the Church, once said "As man now is, God once was: as God now is, man may be." This controversial passage is clearly applicable to Christ himself, a God who became mortal for a time and yet was still and is still God. His work made it possible for us to become as he is, in a sense, for we can receive glorious resurrected bodies (Phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:40-45), we can become "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:14-18), we can "put on the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:3-10), and we can become "like him" (1 John 3:2). Indeed, Christ even went so far as to say, "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), in reference to the divine potential of human beings. While He and the Father are the one true God, whom we will always worship, He does want us to become more like the Father (Matt. 5:48) and the possibility is there because of Christ. Thus, thinking of Christ and our relationship to Him, what Lorenzo Snow said is accurate. However, it appears that Lorenzo Snow's quote also applies to the Father, indicating that He also experienced a period of mortality, but we know nothing specific. But before you let the idea of "God once being like man" offend you, remember that it is explicitly true about Christ Himself. If Christ were the same being as God the Father, then it would also be true of the Father as well, so non-LDS critics who accept the doctrine of the Trinity shouldn't get so upset. Of course, we believe that God and Christ are separate individuals, one in purpose, heart, and mind. But, in the spirit of pure speculation, let me ask if it is possible that Christ, during His mission on the earth, was doing that which He had seen the Father do? In John 5:19, Christ said "The Son can do nothing, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." Some people have speculated on what is meant by John 5:19 and on what Lorenzo Snow meant, but we do not know and I get very nervous when people pretend they know. Certainly there are many difficult and foolish questions which can be asked in this arena. The important point is that God, Christ, and man are of the same "species," and that man has divine potential to become more like Christ and the Father (e.g., see Romans 8:14-18; 2 Peter 1:4-10; 1 John 3:2). This concept was understood by the early Christians, as show above.
Knowing who Christ is makes me very suspicious of anyone who says that we will become EXACTLY like Him. The Bible teaches that we can become "joint heirs" (Rom. 8:14-18) and can become "like him" (I John 3:2) and indeed, need to become like him (Matt. 5:48) and one with him (John 17:21-23). Stronger still, Paul in Philippians 2: 5-7 seems to urge us to pursue that goal, not through puffery, but through humble service:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...."
However, I sense a big difference between the "small g" gods that Christ mentioned (John 10:34) in speaking of the potential of humans (my view) and God the Eternal Father, who is the one and only everlasting God (see also I Cor. 8:5,6). The reference to humans as potential "gods" is clearly meant in a limited sense, but the word used is still "gods." Obviously, we know too little to explain anything in depth about the next life and about "the glory that shall be revealed in us" (Romans 8:18). We are like microbes looking up through the microscope and speculating about the scientist who observes us. We are children, following after our wise and mature Father, knowing little more than a young child does of the things of God. This we know: the glory is to the Father (and Christ) forever.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:36 AM
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This statement has caused great strife in the days of President Snow. I do feel for this prophet and knowing some of the brethren must have reacted to this statement when it was revealed.

As with any prophet, apostle, or general authority, leaders within the church, when given privy to a unique revelation that is not ordinary and perhaps outside the 'black box', the usual knee jerk reaction of arrogance may surface by others. No matter if you tell them to go and ponder on what is present and ask the spirit yourself, they still spew the usual gibberish nonsense from people claiming to be all knowing. Even our brother and Prophet Joseph Smith had jackals hounding his heal when he present some extraordinary revelation to the membership of the church. My gratitude for these brethren in standing their ground, as I do this to this very day.

Now from President Snow statement, we can learn a great deal on what transpired prior to godhood by our beloved Father. I was reminded of Elder Romney conference talk that talked about receiving knowledge of about the corporal of God;

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This knowledge of God opened up to Joseph Smith, as it does to all of us, a vision with infinite promise. We all know that like begets like and that for the offspring to grow to the stature of his parent is a process infinitely repeated in nature. We can therefore understand that for a son of God to grow to the likeness of his Father in heaven is in harmony with natural law. We see this law demonstrated every few years in our own experience. Sons born to mortal fathers grow up to be like their fathers in the flesh. This is the way it will be with spirit sons of God. They will grow up to be like their Father in heaven. Joseph taught this obvious truth. As a matter of fact, he taught that through this process God himself attained perfection. From President Snow's understanding of the teachings of the Prophet on this doctrinal point, he coined the familiar couplet: "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." This teaching is peculiar to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Prophet Joseph considered a knowledge of God to be of such importance that in setting forth the beliefs of the Church, he placed it at the head of the list-"We believe in God, the Eternal Father, . . ." (Articles of Faith.)

One with such a knowledge is in the way of eternal life, for, according to the teachings of Jesus, ". . . this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3.) Having such knowledge, one is assured that God, although infinite and eternal, the framer of heavens and the earth and all things that in them are, being the possessor of all power, all wisdom, and all understanding, being more intelligent than all other beings, is, nevertheless an individual-an understanding, kind, and loving parent ready to hear and minister to the needs of his children-that he is not merely some unthinkable, unknowable, indefinable, far-off, distant force. When one with such a knowledge prays, he knows that he is praying to some one and not just to some thing. (Elder Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, October 1964, Second DayMorning Meeting, p.49-50)
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:44 PM
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My answer is "No, I don't think God was once a man."
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:16 PM
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Dr T,

Don't you mean, God the Father was never a man?
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:30 PM
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Yes Sir. I'd say God the Father was never a man.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:33 PM
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Yes, if a prophet tells me Heavenly Father was once a man then I believe him.
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp View Post
Yes, if a prophet tells me Heavenly Father was once a man then I believe him.

Would you not question the prophets validity if he told you something that directly contradicted what the Bible says?
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:54 PM
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Validate point. But what contradicts the Bible.

I for one, don't require the prophets to tell me that GOD physically is a man.
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:49 PM
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Jesus is the example where by all things of G-d are made known.

Jesus once was a man.

The Traveler
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:57 PM
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Hey Anthony B; A challenge... to read the Book of Mormon; Answer your on statement-Question. I have read and used the Bible in study all my life, and still do. In the supplement, the Book of Mormon there is a promise -Moroni 10: 3-5 .... a personal promise ..... [Verse 4] says, "And when ye shall receive these things, I world exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true, and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, He will manifest the truth of it unto You, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
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