Do you believe in G-d (Jesus Christ) ?

[Traveler]

This thread is intended to be introspective not a means of accusation. For this reason I would first like to set the stage with reference to the Gospel of John and the exchange between Jesus and the Scribes and Pharisees. In this exchange the Scribes and Pharisees claim to believe in the G-d of Abraham. They claim to have a personal relationship with G-d. They claim that their society and culture was formed around 2,000 years of unparalleled tradition dictated by the mouth of G-d in their sacred scriptures. In essence the Scribes and Pharisees claim to have all the correct elements and claim that their belief in G-d is without question genuine.

In response Jesus tells them that if they believe in the G-d of Abraham that they would do the will of G-d as Abraham did. I read this to say if someone is a believer in G-d that they are not like other people. They are different.

So I ask the question – How has your belief in G-d made you different? Are you different in the manner of the Scribes and Pharisees or are you different in the manner that Jesus was different?

The Traveler

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Are you different in the manner of the Scribes and Pharisees or are you different in the manner that Jesus was different?

The Traveler

I will go with Jesus over slavish devotion to rules and regulations. Jesus was such a liberal.

[bert10]

We LDS are different than the world because we have been given more on the Godhead than the world has.

When did the Scribes and Pharisees and others really understood the Gospel of The Father?.....When did they not kill the prophets whom were sent to them?

Before I continue...God spelled in this fashion means...the Son. And GOD spelled in this fashion...means the FATHER. Both words means....Good and GOOD.

The God of the OT is Jesus. Only in those days...He was first known as Almighty then as Jehovah. Both Names are revelations on His nature.

Exodus 6:3 - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Did not the Almighty in the Torah claimed to be the God of Abraham and the Creator of all things? And does not Jehovah make this claim also?

And then if one goes to the gospel of John....Which clearly states that it was the WORD who made all things in heaven and the earth and all things in the world. Then we are told that the Word was made flesh. And So now we know that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was Jesus.

Jesus acted in the Name of the Father in relation to us. Because neither we nor the fallen world can abide the glory of the Father. For nothing impure, sinful, or guilty can come into the presence of the Father.

And it is this understanding of the Godhead and of other doctrines that makes us different and sets us apart. The people of the Lord shall always be peculiar and far from the knowledge and wisdom of the world.

Peace be unto you
bert10

Originally Posted by Traveler

This thread is intended to be introspective not a means of accusation. For this reason I would first like to set the stage with reference to the Gospel of John and the exchange between Jesus and the Scribes and Pharisees. In this exchange the Scribes and Pharisees claim to believe in the G-d of Abraham. They claim to have a personal relationship with G-d. They claim that their society and culture was formed around 2,000 years of unparalleled tradition dictated by the mouth of G-d in their sacred scriptures. In essence the Scribes and Pharisees claim to have all the correct elements and claim that their belief in G-d is without question genuine.

In response Jesus tells them that if they believe in the G-d of Abraham that they would do the will of G-d as Abraham did. I read this to say if someone is a believer in G-d that they are not like other people. They are different.

So I ask the question – How has your belief in G-d made you different? Are you different in the manner of the Scribes and Pharisees or are you different in the manner that Jesus was different?

The Traveler

[crytsprospect]

There was a reason why God sent Jesus and the plan would not have been complete without him. It seems to me that before Jesus came those in the church of that day became to puffed up in judgement and obedience was subjective to who you were. Jesus and his teachings are just the rest of the story.......

[jadams_4040]

Originally Posted by Traveler

This thread is intended to be introspective not a means of accusation. For this reason I would first like to set the stage with reference to the Gospel of John and the exchange between Jesus and the Scribes and Pharisees. In this exchange the Scribes and Pharisees claim to believe in the G-d of Abraham. They claim to have a personal relationship with G-d. They claim that their society and culture was formed around 2,000 years of unparalleled tradition dictated by the mouth of G-d in their sacred scriptures. In essence the Scribes and Pharisees claim to have all the correct elements and claim that their belief in G-d is without question genuine.

In response Jesus tells them that if they believe in the G-d of Abraham that they would do the will of G-d as Abraham did. I read this to say if someone is a believer in G-d that they are not like other people. They are different.

So I ask the question – How has your belief in G-d made you different? Are you different in the manner of the Scribes and Pharisees or are you different in the manner that Jesus was different?

The Traveler

Seems fairly simple to me? if we do his commandments and covenants we will be his people.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by jadams_4040

Seems fairly simple to me? if we do his commandments and covenants we will be his people.

May I add to your beautiful thought. It is not just living by his covenants and commandments but finding the greatest joy and happiness possible in so living.

I am convinced that the degree one believes in G-d they will be an example of what it is to believe in G-d.

I have wondered if some were to stand trail for believing in G-d if there would be enough evidence to convict them? (espically when they point to others to declair them as non-bleievers to creat a standard)

The Traveler

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I will go with Jesus over slavish devotion to rules and regulations. Jesus was such a liberal.

I think I agree with you but, maybe Jesus wasn't so much a liberal as he was an obedient and faithful son who understood the purpose behind the rules rather than rules for the sake of rules.

He summed it all up in two rules - love God and love everybody else - which on the face of it sound quite simple but the latter can be incredibly difficult.

The scribes and pharisees were more interested in the rules themselves than the reasons for them.

[Teancum18]

Originally Posted by Traveler

This thread is intended to be introspective not a means of accusation. For this reason I would first like to set the stage with reference to the Gospel of John and the exchange between Jesus and the Scribes and Pharisees. In this exchange the Scribes and Pharisees claim to believe in the G-d of Abraham. They claim to have a personal relationship with G-d. They claim that their society and culture was formed around 2,000 years of unparalleled tradition dictated by the mouth of G-d in their sacred scriptures. In essence the Scribes and Pharisees claim to have all the correct elements and claim that their belief in G-d is without question genuine.

In response Jesus tells them that if they believe in the G-d of Abraham that they would do the will of G-d as Abraham did. I read this to say if someone is a believer in G-d that they are not like other people. They are different.

So I ask the question – How has your belief in G-d made you different? Are you different in the manner of the Scribes and Pharisees or are you different in the manner that Jesus was different?

The Traveler

This is very insightful and made me think about it for myself. I am forced to recall upon the words of Paul to the Galatians in chapters 1-4 of his epistle to them. Paul basically reprimands them for believing that works (aka: obedience to Heavenly Father's commandments) alone could save them. He told them that their works only saved them if they were done with faith in Christ (He said the same thing to the Hebrews in Hebrews 11:6). I think that strikes the very same chord you're striking with this thread. So my answer to your question is exactly how I will finish off my explanation about Paul in his epistle to the Galatians. As we believe in Christ, we want to do as He asks of us ("If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15). The more we obey His commandments, the stronger our faith grows. It's cyclical. My testimony in Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the world, grows with my obedience to His commandments.

That's my answer to your question.

Originally Posted by Traveler

May I add to your beautiful thought. It is not just living by his covenants and commandments but finding the greatest joy and happiness possible in so living.

I am convinced that the degree one believes in G-d they will be an example of what it is to believe in G-d.

I have wondered if some were to stand trail for believing in G-d if there would be enough evidence to convict them? (espically when they point to others to declair them as non-bleievers to creat a standard)

The Traveler

I totally agree with the first part of this quote. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well said, Traveler. As for the last paragraph, I don't agree or disagree. In fact, as much as I am intrigued by the notion you pose, I keep going back to the parable Christ taught about the 10 virgins and their oils lamps (Matthew 25:1-12). Essentially saying that there will not be enough oil in one lamp for two people. We must save our own oil. In other words, others' faith and works will not be enough to save another. We must have our own. So if we have our own, I would think that there would be need for us to stand before Heavenly Father and compare ourselves to others to set a standard. Truthfully, and this is just my opinion based on how I personally interpret this parable, I think those who try to point to others on the day of judgment will be reminded of this parable. I think Heavenly Father will ignore the standard and say, "You should have had your own oil, my child." Just as He said to the 5 foolish virgins, "I know thee not" (v.12).

Those are my thoughts.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I have wondered if some were to stand trail for believing in G-d if there would be enough evidence to convict them? (espically when they point to others to declair them as non-bleievers to creat a standard)

Perhaps I would be one of the ones not convicted. I think I find it too hard sometimes and just don't seem to be able to manage to cope with it. I am disappointed in myself. I fear that I will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom to be with my beloved and I hope that he can forgive me and find someone there to share eternity with and be happy. I think one of my daughters will make it. She amazes me. The other one I worry about. She has been hurt so much I don't think she even has the seed of a testimony left now. I wish I could give her some oil but I don't seem to have much of my own.