Works required for Christ's grace?

[Hemidakota]

What we did earn is passage to the glory of Heaven and being resurrected. However, we did not earn to get to the Celestial Kingdom since it requires our WORKS through various ordinances and our other necessary personal works to ensure we can obtain it.

We do not need to be baptized, received the Holy Spirit, be married, temple work, and so forth to receive anything less than the Celestial Glory....

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by tiancum

I don't spose I could expand better than the other posters. Such good explanations.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone was saying this. Just meant to concur.

[rayhale]

Are you saved by Grace or works? Well the question is complicated, so let me break it down for you. You can read the ‘Preach My Gospel’ book, if you don’t have one, you can download it here: Preach My Gospel go to Lesson 2 on book page: 47, PDF page: 61. The Plan of Salvation, or what sometimes is called The Plan of Happiness. There isn’t just a Heaven and a Hell like most people do, we believe that there is a place for how much you believe in God. Jesus didn’t take away the Ten Commandments, when asked, he paraphrased the Ten Commandments to two: ‘love God, and to love thy neighbor’. What is simpler, yet more complete than this? Would you worship idols, or if you love your neighbor, would you hurt them, or steal from them?
Going to the bottom up here is the kingdoms:
Outer Darkness: This place is only for the place for people that knowingly turn away from God. Joseph Smith said, ‘it’s like looking up at the Sun and knowing it’s up there, then saying, with all your might, that it is not there.’ (I paraphrased it somewhat).
Terrestrial Kingdom: This is the place for people who sinned the worst sins except for the unpardonable sin. Even this kingdom is more glorious then we can ever conceive.
Telestial Kingdom: This is for the generally good people that love God, yet did not endure to the end.
Celestial Kingdom: This is the highest kingdom. This is where God lives. This is also the only kingdom of Heaven that families can be together forever.

[bytor2112]

Salvation by Grace: Elder Bruce R. McConkie

Now, there is a true doctrine of salvation by grace--a salvation by grace alone and without works, as the scriptures say. To understand this doctrine we must define our terms as they are defined in holy writ.

1. What is salvation? It is both immortality and eternal life. It is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It consists of the fullness of the glory of the Father and is reserved for those for whom the family unity continues in eternity. Those who are saved become as God is and live as he lives.

2. What is the plan of salvation? It is the system ordained by the Father to enable his spirit children to advance and progress and become like him. It consists of three great and eternal verities--the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement--without any of which there could be no salvation.

3. What is the grace of God? It is his mercy, his love, and his condescension--all manifest for the benefit and blessing of his children, all operating to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

We rejoice in the heavenly condescension that enabled Mary to become “the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1 Nephi 11:18).

We bask in the eternal love that sent the Only Begotten into the world “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

We are profoundly grateful for that mercy which endureth forever and through which salvation is offered to erring mortals.

4. Does salvation come by grace, or grace alone, by grace without works? It surely does, without any question in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees.

We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come?

In his goodness and grace the great God ordained and established the plan of salvation. No works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace he created this earth and all that is on it, with man as the crowning creature of his creating--without which creation his spirit children could not obtain immortality and eternal life. No works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace he provided for the Fall of man, thus bringing mortality and death and a probationary estate into being--without all of which there would be no immortality and eternal life. And again no works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace--and this above all--he gave his Only Begotten Son to ransom man and all life from the temporal and spiritual death brought into the world by the Fall of Adam.

He sent his Son to redeem mankind, to atone for the sins of the world, “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). And again all this comes to us as a free gift and without works.

There is nothing any man could do to create himself. This was the work of the Lord God.

Nor did we have any part in the Fall of man, without which there could be no salvation. The Lord provided the way, and Adam and Eve put the system into operation.

And finally, there neither has been, nor is, nor ever can be any way nor means by which man alone can, or any power he possesses, redeem himself.

We cannot resurrect ourselves anymore than we can create ourselves. We cannot create a heavenly abode for the Saints, nor make provision for the continuation of the family unit in eternity, nor bring salvation and exaltation into being. All these things are ordained and established by that God who is the Father of us all. And they all came into being and are made available to us, as free gifts, without works, because of the infinite goodness and grace of Him whose children we are.

Truly, there is no way to overstate the goodness and grandeurs and glories of the grace of God which bringeth salvation. Such wondrous love, such unending mercy, such infinite compassion and condescension--all these can come only from the Eternal God who lives in eternal life and who desires all of his children to live as he lives and be inheritors of eternal life.

[Heavenguard]

This is something that I have to constantly point out to the brothers and sisters of my own congregation: You cannot read a single verse or passage by itself; you must read it in its entire context.

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Jesus is warning the people about false prophets who will claim to be followers of Christ, or those who believe they are following Christ, but have actually been misled or misunderstand. You can do anything "in the name of Jesus", or "in the name of God" without doing anything that is actually according to the Lord's will if you are mistaken on what his will really is. (Crusades, anyone?) That is why it is important to know and understand who God really is, what he expects from us, and what he wants for us.

Edit: I've ignored the Grace vs. Works debate entirely because that verse does not actually concern itself with that matter.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by Heavenguard

This is something that I have to constantly point out to the brothers and sisters of my own congregation: You cannot read a single verse or passage by itself; you must read it in its entire context.



Jesus is warning the people about false prophets who will claim to be followers of Christ, or those who believe they are following Christ, but have actually been misled or misunderstand. You can do anything "in the name of Jesus", or "in the name of God" without doing anything that is actually according to the Lord's will if you are mistaken on what his will really is. (Crusades, anyone?) That is why it is important to know and understand who God really is, what he expects from us, and what he wants for us.

Edit: I've ignored the Grace vs. Works debate entirely because that verse does not actually concern itself with that matter.

Perhaps.. but the thread is "works required for Christ's grace?"........

[Dale]

Although Community of Christ/RLDS i see LDS as needing to explain grace saves many sinners from hell with no obedience required. My understanding is LDS theology is that certain rewards, positions, and glories are conditioned on obedience. That after they extend their own best efforts grace also has a use in that becomes an enabling power to obtain exaltation, ect.

Like LDS we also accept D.&C. 76 as scripture.

In my experience when LDS express doubts about not making it to the Celestial kingdom they mean they are hell bound unsaved. LDS need to explain in Mormonism for the saved they might be in danger of a lower kingdom, but not be in any danger of losing saved status. So in my experience when LDS express doubts they arn't worrying about losing basic saved status. But an Evangelical hearing LDS persons express doubts they think of LDS thinking of losing all saved status.

LDS belief on terms can also surprise Evangelicals. To them if you are saved you get eternal life. But in LDS belief for some reason it has come to mean exaltation (godhood) only. So a situation develops where saved persons not exalted can get a type of damnation. Although no proof text for the wider definition of damnation supports that definition, so i see all saved as getting eternal life.

Are works required for Christs grace? To me God can withold grace from the disobedient. To me a work like baptism is an important commandment of God. To me if a person refuses baptism then it might be because they are unsaved. And if baptism was the work they were evidencing their unbelief over by not being baptized then they would have to obey before getting saved. It would be not the work that would effect their salvation, but lack of faith in Jesus. The disobeyed would could be the point the person is held guilty of all, and get sent to the lake of fire, or the final hell.(James 2:10)

Only if disobedience could have no effect on any persons salvation at all could salvation be by the Evangelical idea of grace alone. Though i mentally caution myself not to judge a person from being damned over not getting baptized, or doing any commanded work. To me a person might refuse baptism for some other reason than unbelief in Jesus. It is up to Jesus to decide if a person is an unbeliever or not, or whether he wants to hold not keeping a commandment against them.

We are all guilty of something so depend on the same Lord for a not guilty verdict. (Romans 3:23) We can only get forgiveness of our sins, and salvation from hell via Jesus shed blood. Forgiveness sounds more complicated in LDS theology. Not being forgiven of a sin under Celestial law does not mean not forgiven under terrestrial or Telestial law. As long as you are forgiven under one of the three laws you would be saved from the lake of fire.

[Traveler]

Thought I would put forth some thoughts.

When it comes to discussions about saved it seems to me that everyone argues that they are saved because of something they have done and that others are not saved because they have not done whatever. I would like to suggest that the first thing someone must do before they can be saved is to get themselves hopelessly caught up in something so bad that they require that someone else rescue them. Now I can agree to the concept that everyone is so hopelessly caught up in sin that they will suffer the wages of sin – which is death and therefore they desperately need to be saved .

I wonder about those that claim to be saved from sin. Do you think you will not die? The ancient meaning of “Hell” is death. So it appears to me that everyone will suffer death which is hell. Now the argument becomes that after death some will be taken from death into heaven. Okay, if that is the case then when they are taken from death then they will be able to say they are saved. It seems rather foolish to tell everyone you are saved and then suffer death like everybody else.

Some may think they are saved from sin. This also is foolish to think that they will never again sin. It is even more foolish to realize you are going to sin (sin meaning to rebel against G-d) and think you will be saved but someone else will not be saved for their rebellion against G-d. Shall I go on?

Jesus said “forgive them for they know not what they do.” If someone has a personal relationship with G-d and then they sin – I see no where in scripture where they will be forgiven if they know G-d and turn away from him, knowing full well what they are doing? Is this not the greatest sin – to know G-d and then deny him by our actions – since actions speak lauder than words?

The apostles (that did have a personal relationship with Jesus) when told that one would deny him did they say “Not me – maybe someone else but not me because I have a personal relationship”? No they said, “L-rd is it I”? But not in the debates over grace and works – everyone thinks they deserve mercy for whatever reason and that others do not deserve mercy regardless of their different desire. I shudder that anyone would ever suggest that it is not them and then to give some excuse in one breath for turning their back on G-d and then in the next breath imply that someone else is not as deserving of being saved as they are.

Let me be clear with my belief – I believe Jesus will save anyone anywhere anytime that wants to be saved – even if they do not want to be saved at this moment – if in another moment they would be saved – I believe by the grace of G-d they will be saved. I also believe sin is quite addictive and them many will find such pleasure in sin and repeating sin over and over again that there will be some that will grow to so love sin that they will not want to be saved. Now if you know that sin takes you away from G-d and you are willing to sin – even after you have come to believe in G-d and personally know him – that you, more than anyone else are in the greatest danger.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

Whether or not good deeds are required, it is always so nice when religious people do them. Makes the world a better place and give tangible expression to our love for God and His children.

[bert10]

Hi Tiancum...

1. Grace of God for sinners

Time given by God to men to repent before Justice demands her due.

2. Grace of God for the righteous

The ability of God to see us as little children. [Holy and pure]

3. Requirements for being cleansed by the blood.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

We are not saved by Grace as the Christian teach it...it is an abomination.

God has Grace for the sinners as well as for the righteous. Grace is a gift and it acts differently whether we are sinners or righteous. For the Sinners it is time to repent before justice demands its due. For every sin God grants us a space to repent before that sin is acted on us. The grace of God to see us as little children..is a gift that is reserved for the children of the covenant. It means one must first enter into the Covenant and fulfill its conditions. So you see God, has grace for sinners as well as for the righteous. We are all saved somewhere in the many mansions...that are in the kingdom. Only they who have made themselves unable to repent in this world or in the world to come cannot be redeemed.

The resurrection is for both the just and the unjust...by grace of God.

However, Grace does not cover our works which shall be judged.

Peace be unto you
bert10

[quote=tiancum;201143]how do you interpret this?

Does the lord require something of us before we are "saved"?

[Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven./QUOTE]



I am sure we are all in agreement that we are saved by grace. At what point does grace kick in...?

-confessing his name is a work, just as much as any other commandment.

-can a person confess Christ's name, but give no effort to follow him after his "saving moment" and fall from grace?