Alcohol

[cgrantreed]

Ive grabbed the saw, plugged it into a power source(cause I'd rather get to the cutting real quick like:-) and I am HEADED OUT ON THE LIMB!!!

I may have missed this point so forgive me if I am restating the previously stated... The question was about why some Christians think it ok to drink and the rest, specifically the LDS faith, don't. MHO is that many faiths outside of the LDS faith don't get too wrapped around the axle over it but many say to stay away from it because we suck as humans and we (not anyone here specifically but as a group as a whole in mankind) can't control ourselves so to prevent that problem...just don't be there. Many points have been made towards the WoW in the LDS faith being "the law/rule/guide/prophecy/commandment" that is to be followed regardless "just because He said so" kind of thing. I am going to state it a different way...forgive my repugnance please... many of you missed the point.

The WoW is a commandment. We in the LDS church have it as one, no one else does even though many feel the same way for a myriad of differing reasons... the result is still the same . The line in the sand is drawn here----> If God said so... it simply is. Do you follow Him or do you make justifications to suit your wants/needs? For everyone outside of the LDS faith... do whatever you feel is His will in your life. If you claim the LDS faith as your own, then do you follow His councel? Of so... follow the WoW.

There has long been this battle of the reason why the WoW exists and every time it gets drawn to the "ills of the items listed in the WoW list" when it has little to do with it. Its about being commanded to follow Him. I can tell you firsthand that ANYTHING in excess will kill you. Sugars/fats/carbs/ etc will make you fat and DEAD. Idleness in itself will make you fat and DEAD. Eating asbestos won't make you fat but it will make you DEAD. Anyone with some self control could drink a glass of wine a day and have little ill effect. Yes it has been proven. I know many that can smoke a joint every day and still function perfectly and are quite intelligent. there are even people that have smoked a cigar a day for 60 years and died of OLD AGE, not cancer...however, most don't have this opportunity. Everything can be abused... I know, I eat too much and drink WAAAAY too much soda. I am fat... though not yet DEAD... soon though if I keep my excessive habits. I am breaking the "spirit of the law" in my habits even though the WoW doesn't specifically say that my 2 liter Mt Dew habit is bad and the triple cheeseburger calling to me at midnight is going to clog my arteries and cause me all sorts of medical issues.

You can scream and yell about what is and isn't scientifically proven by science or your personal life but if you don't see the WoW for what it was originally given... simple obedience for the protection of your body and Temple for your spirit... then you missed the point. Why do other faiths support or promote drinking alcohol? Because they don't believe what we believe... and that is their choice. It boils down to belief. Do you believe that it was written to help us and that its important to be obedient to it? or is it rubbish because its over cautious drivel? Your choice.

My 2 cents and I hear the limb starting to break so...
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.::thud::

Grant

[WANDERER]

You may drink a bit and feel that you can cope ....but...age and your body's processing ability will probably catch up with you ; ). I wish I had a dollar for everyone who has said.."I never used to get hangovers or feel a bit off the day after..." etc. There are other influencing factors on alochol blood levels. Purchase one of those blood alochol measuring machines and have fun working out how good your judgement is ; ). I had a friend who had one drink, lived two streets away, got pulled over and was quite confident....AND was fine by a narrow margin...but the police said it's rising quickly perhaps you'd better be on your way. So the drink limit is a very rough guide at best.

I'm not that into alcohol, it's a meh factor. Someone gave me a bottle of wine as a pressie and I drank some diluted with coke ... thought randomly about using it for cooking (freezing it into icecubes) and ended up chucking it as I forgot about it and thought it would be a little off by that stage. The other two points on the WOW might be a little more problematic ; ) as I seem to swap from one to the other whenever I try to completely quit both. I don't have to...I'm not LDS...but they are a compound habit.

[MarginOfError]

Just some food for thought for all the alcohol-is-pure-poison people out there:

Alcohol has what is known as a cumulative effect. This means that the more you consume, the more dangerous it becomes, but in small concentrations, it remains quite benign. Here's an unrelated example:

A study was done to investigate a link between paint chemicals and Acute Lymphatic Lymphoma. The hypothesis was that fetuses and young children who were exposed to paint fumes were at higher risk for developing ALL. The study found that the risk was no different for children where only one room had been painted. But in homes where 3-4 rooms had been painted, the risk was significantly higher.

Alcohol works the same way. In small concentrations your body is very capable of flushing the toxins out of the system. This has become so well understood in medical practice that physicians no longer worry if a mother has a glass of champagne for a special event while she's pregnant. In fact, pregnant women may have a glass as often as once a month without having any impact on her or the fetus's health. Note, however, doctors still strongly discourage this behavior.

Now, before you jump on me for saying that the body can flush out the toxins from alcohol (and thus, admitting alcohol has toxins), please keep in mind that the body flushes toxins out whenever you eat a salad or a granola bar. That's why you urinate and defecate.

Lastly, I refer you to xzain's post (page 5 or 6 of this thread) that addresses why we don't drink alcohol. Thanks xzain for having a clue!

[sjdean]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Just some food for thought for all the alcohol-is-pure-poison people out there:

Alcohol has what is known as a cumulative effect. This means that the more you consume, the more dangerous it becomes, but in small concentrations, it remains quite benign. Here's an unrelated example:

Just a quickie, I agree with what you say but I'd add that we're all different and have different levels of enzymes able to flush out or convert the dangerous toxins to other more benign stuff. What might be too much for one person, can be very little for another.

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Lastly, I refer you to xzain's post (page 5 or 6 of this thread) that addresses why we don't drink alcohol. Thanks xzain for having a clue!

Yup, and Grant:

The WoW is a commandment. We in the LDS church have it as one, no one else does even though many feel the same way for a myriad of differing reasons... the result is still the same . The line in the sand is drawn here----> If God said so... it simply is. Do you follow Him or do you make justifications to suit your wants/needs? For everyone outside of the LDS faith... do whatever you feel is His will in your life. If you claim the LDS faith as your own, then do you follow His councel? Of so... follow the WoW.

Cheers guys.

Cya
Simon

[RachelleDrew]

As someone who has a lot of experience in other Christian denominations, I can't say that i've ever heard a minister/priest/preacher whatever say that alcohol was completely off limits. My dad's side of the family is originally Lutheran and they certainly use wine ceremonially. Funnily enough though, none of them are drinkers outside of that at all, with the exception of my rich grandparents who use buying expensive bottles of wine on special occasions as an excuse to show off.

My mother's side of the family comes from all walks of life, a lot of Southern Baptists or Pentecostals though. They all drink beer probably once or twice a week. I can't remember growing up hearing that you couldn't do it when I attended their churches. Once again, they mostly preached against drunkeness.

I used to drink in college, and quite heavily at that. Had I had not been so addicted to other substances alcohol could have most certainly been a problem for me, as it were I don't know that I was addicted to alcohol or not. It certainly wasn't my drug of choice, but I did drink far too much.

But for me alcohol was just so intertwined with my other problems that I needed to give it up along with everything else, even if I wasn't an alcoholic so to speak.

If non-LDS people of legal age choose to drink I certainly won't try and stop them. I know that not everyone who drinks is addicted or in poor health because of it. Other Christians don't follow the WoW so of course they won't have moral objections to it.

The only time I get irritated is when their drinking, alcoholic or not, begins to affect others. I get extremely angry when friends of mine get drunk in front of their children or when they drive after drinking. Even if you haven't had very much, a lot can get out of control really fast. If you choose to drink, don't be an idiot about it. It's as simple as that.

The only thing I miss about drinking is having a dark ale with a steak. I really do enjoy the taste of beer, but until they create a near-beer that doesn't taste like butt I won't be drinking ever again. Lol.

[ama49]

I've heard friends of mine say they couldn't be Mormon b/c they like to drink and Jesus drank wine in the Bible. Joseph Smith drank wine too. For those who aren't Mormon, the Bible says not to get drunk...basically don't drink in excess. For Mormons, prophets after Joseph Smith made the Word of Wisdom a part of Mormonism as stated in the Doctrine and Covenants "for the weakest of the weak."

I personally feel it's common sense not to drink, smoke, do drugs, etc.

Grace for Grace

[abqfriend]

I am not an LDS member but here to learn.
Did not Jesus use wine in the Seder Meal/ Holy Communion?
Was not His first miracle of turning water into wine?
Did not the very early LDS church use wine in Holy Communion?
The Bible indeed speaks of Wine in both positive and negative ways-but I think the main focus of the Sacred Scriptures on this matter is that the excess of wine/alcohol was and is the problem.
I understand the LDS current position on Alcohol-and applaud their efforts-but I do not think the Christian church history is clear on this-although the testimony of an LDS prophet on the subject should be enough for its LDS membership.

[Hemidakota]

Wine or grape juice? There was not enough time for the Savior to 'ferment' the change of elements from water to wine or grape juice.

[abqfriend]

If Jesus could change water into wine-could he not equally have made it wine-as in fermented grape juice? The scripture states "wine." and the occasion was a wedding.
We are talking about a "miracle." God can do anything!

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Wine or grape juice? There was not enough time for the Savior to 'ferment' the change of elements from water to wine or grape juice.

[Hemidakota]

Hows your faith with prayers in seeking an answer? This is one you will need to clearly seek. It may surprise you. Something I had prayer over years ago in my own ignorance when I noted Noah was drunk from fermented wine.