Alcohol

[bytebear]

Originally Posted by joheri

Maybe it's been said allready, but to me, it seems one verse from the WoW is often left out in every discussion about it (D&C 89:3): "Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

Remember that WoW was first given as a piece of advise, a benificial principle to follow. Verse 3 tells me that HF knows there are those among us who are somewhat predisposed to becoming an alcoholic (called the "weak" or "weakest" in vers 3). So, if all saints in any given circumstance abstain from it, no one will be tempted to drink it and the "weak" may never develop alcoholism. It also means that many of us would do just fine drinking some alcohol, but as LDS, we have promised not to do it anyway.

Just my take on it....

I tend to agree with you. I taught a family on my mission and the father asked, "Why if I know I am not an alcoholic, can I just have a beer once in a while." And I said, "You may not be an alcoholic but you don't know if your children may become alcoholics, and you will be setting an example for them." They joined the church shortly after. And that is when we covenant to obey the commandments, which in this dispensation and at this time includes the WoW.

But we need to remember that not everyone has covenanted to obey the WoW. Some people get upset when they hear that Mitt Romney, for example, will offer alcohol to guests at his home, but he is giving it to those who 1) choose to accept it, and 2) have made no covenant to abstain, and so it doesn't affect us to offer something we personally choose to avoid.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Maureen

I, for one, will adamantly disagree with you. (I will add to this post, once I get home.)

I second all the disagreements.

If alcohol were a poison, most of the people in America would be dead.

Elphaba

[Carl62]

I remember one time when I was 11 years old I was down at my aunt's house in the Florida keys (Big Pine Key) and my cousin and I were absolutely bored and we went to this church's outdoor picnic. It was a Methodist church. They didn't know us and we didn't know them but nonetheless, they were very nice and we stayed for a few hours and had fun. What REALLY surprised me though was the amount of drinking that was going on. I think I saw at least 3/4 of the people there with beer cans in their hand, including the minister himself! About a 1/3 of the people had cigarettes in their hands as well. I wasn't LDS at the time but because I came from an Evangelical Brethren background, the EB's never did this. I think too this all comes from the rationalizing that Jesus drank wine, plus cigarettes aren't mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I can't think of what else it could be.

[Maureen]

Drinking alcohol (think about it) is tantamount to "putting poison" into your body. Is it not? I mean, is somone actually going to disagree with me on that point?

Getting back to disagreeing with this statement; it's not easy adding links at work since my work computer makes it as difficult as possible.

“Alcohol is a Poison”

by David J. Hanson, Ph.D.

A poison is any substance that is capable of causing injury, illness or death to an organism. 1 Salt, water and oxygen are all poisons because in high enough quantities they can harm people. Too much salt in a diet can cause serious health problems, hyper hydration can kill athletes, and too much oxygen given to a premature infant can cause permanent blindness.

Toxicologists emphasize that “the dosage makes the poison.” Although salt, water, oxygen, aspirin, alcohol beverages, and many other substances can cause poisoning in excessive amounts, it makes no sense to call them poisons.

So why do so many groups and organizations insist on calling alcohol a poison? Apparently to stigmatize alcoholic beverages and frighten people into alcohol abstinence. The tactic was first used effectively by the Anti-Saloon League, the Women’s Christian Temperance Union, the KKK and other anti-alcohol groups. 2 The technique is still widely used today. 3

Honest communication doesn’t mislead or deceive. Calling alcohol a poison is misleading and deceptive.

"Alcohol is a Poison"

M.

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by Carl62

I remember one time when I was 11 years old I was down at my aunt's house in the Florida keys (Big Pine Key) and my cousin and I were absolutely bored and we went to this church's outdoor picnic. It was a Methodist church. They didn't know us and we didn't know them but nonetheless, they were very nice and we stayed for a few hours and had fun. What REALLY surprised me though was the amount of drinking that was going on. I think I saw at least 3/4 of the people there with beer cans in their hand, including the minister himself! About a 1/3 of the people had cigarettes in their hands as well. I wasn't LDS at the time but because I came from an Evangelical Brethren background, the EB's never did this. I think too this all comes from the rationalizing that Jesus drank wine, plus cigarettes aren't mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I can't think of what else it could be.

There are quite a few church denominations that have no set taboos against alcohol drinking or even smoking, that is left up to each member to decide for themselves. Drinking alcohol and smoking doesn't make anyone a worse sinner than any other vice out there. But if you want to be a smarter sinner, you'd definitely would want to stop the smoking.

M.

[ErikJohnson]

Interesting article in Christianity Today on the subject--

Is a Beer just a Beer? | Out of Ur | Conversations for Ministry Leaders

Some of the comments are worth a read too.

--Erik

[Godless]

Here's an interesting tidbit courtesy of your resident beer-geek. After reading the article that ErikJohnson shared, I feel compelled to share this with you.

Centuries ago, not only was it acceptable for Christians to drink beer, it was brewed primarily by clerics. German monks brewed malt-heavy beers that they would drink for sustenance during their long fasting periods. These beers were so rich and malty that they were often called "liquid bread". Belgian monks brewed rich beers with lots of yeast and sweet brewing sugars for the same purpose. Over time, many of the monastery breweries became commercialized, but there are still 7 monasteries (6 in Belgium and one in Holland) where the traditional ales of the region are still brewed by monks, and they are some of the finest beers in the world. All of the German abbeys were eventually commercialized, but the malty beers that they made back then are still popular today.

Granted, this historical use of beer in no way justifies the excessive imbibing of it in modern times, but it gives an interesting perspective to the role that beer has played in Christian Europe throughout the centuries. This is probably why drinking isn't taboo at all in many parts of Europe.

[/nerd mode]

[Kawazu]

Hi,

I just did some quick web research and came up with an interesting article--for the teetotalers here:





The complete article can be downloaded from:
http://www.calvarychurch.com/ministr...853_080808.pdf

[ztodd]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

I second all the disagreements.

If alcohol were a poison, most of the people in America would be dead.

Elphaba

It is a poison to the spirit, and also to the Spirit. That's all I need to know.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

I second all the disagreements.

If alcohol were a poison, most of the people in America would be dead.

Elphaba

They are dead- one of my uncles died as a result of alcoholism. Alcoholism isn't just restricted here in America, it is a world wide disease.

Ethel Alcohol (the alcohol that is imbibed) is a poison.