Alcohol

[ErikJohnson]

To make an imperfect analogy, saying alcohol kills people (i.e., it's "poison") is a bit like saying guns kill people. Call me a right-wing lunatic, but I think it's more accurate and useful to say people kill people.

--Erik

[a-train]

Joseph Smith owned a bar in Nauvoo (after D&C 89 was given). Jesus not only drank wine, but used his miraculous power to provide it for an entire wedding reception. Noah passed out in a naked drunken state (after the flood). The wine offered before the LORD at the tabernacle was to be "strong wine" (Numb. 28:7). Further, The Word of Wisdom explicitly condones wine for the purposes of "assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments". (D&C 89:5). Jesus administered wine not only to his disciples, but to the Nephites (3 Nephi 20). It also says that barley is to be used "for mild drinks, as also other grain". What are mild drinks made from barley? Beer.

I think many of us are judgmental of those who drink alcoholic beverages. The commandment to entirely abstain from alcohol is a modern one only, and it is extended only to the Saints of the LDS Church. It is NOT akin to sexual immorality, robbery, murder, or any such sins against other people.

We have built up a society within the Church that hates drugs and alcohol. However, we must be very careful not to become modern Pharisees who find ourselves more righteous than the rest of the world and hold it to standards which are NOT part of biblical teaching. There are some of us who would consider a righteous and honest Christian a rascal just because he drinks beer. Meanwhile, a self-righteous Mormon who abstains from beer is considered a saint.

Not even the Saints in Joseph Smith's day had a commandment to abstain from beer. We must remember this reality and look on others with the beam removed from our eyes.

-a-train

[joheri]

It seems none seem to care about my reference from the Word of Wisdom (D&C 89). I'd expect at least LDS members to respond to it. As stated in the first verses of that chapter, it is given as a piece of advise. The membership as a whole later covenanted to adopt it as a commandment.

Think about it, if you have a group of people, there is a statistical chance for at least one person being predisposed to alcoholism. Now, if everyone abstain from it, it would not only benefit the whole group, but especially the person being predisposed.

[volgadon]

Originally Posted by a-train

Joseph Smith owned a bar in Nauvoo (after D&C 89 was given). Jesus not only drank wine, but used his miraculous power to provide it for an entire wedding reception. Noah passed out in a naked drunken state (after the flood). The wine offered before the LORD at the tabernacle was to be "strong wine" (Numb. 28:7). Further, The Word of Wisdom explicitly condones wine for the purposes of "assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments". (D&C 89:5). Jesus administered wine not only to his disciples, but to the Nephites (3 Nephi 20). It also says that barley is to be used "for mild drinks, as also other grain". What are mild drinks made from barley? Beer.

I think many of us are judgmental of those who drink alcoholic beverages. The commandment to entirely abstain from alcohol is a modern one only, and it is extended only to the Saints of the LDS Church. It is NOT akin to sexual immorality, robbery, murder, or any such sins against other people.

We have built up a society within the Church that hates drugs and alcohol. However, we must be very careful not to become modern Pharisees who find ourselves more righteous than the rest of the world and hold it to standards which are NOT part of biblical teaching. There are some of us who would consider a righteous and honest Christian a rascal just because he drinks beer. Meanwhile, a self-righteous Mormon who abstains from beer is considered a saint.

Not even the Saints in Joseph Smith's day had a commandment to abstain from beer. We must remember this reality and look on others with the beam removed from our eyes.

-a-train

There is a difference between small beer and strong beer. Small beers are the mild drinks, which were essential in a world where water was dangerous. Barley water was used to nurse people back to health.
Sadly, nobody knew bout kvass.
Alcohol would not be an evil IF people kept it under control. That however is rarely the case. I know very few LDS who think poorly of someone who is good and honest yet drinks a beer. I've seen what alcohol does. What alcohol brings along IS sexual immorality, robbery, murder, spousal and parental abuse, neglect, poverty, broken homes, lies, and so on.

[ErikJohnson]

Originally Posted by volgadon

There is a difference between small beer and strong beer. Small beers are the mild drinks, which were essential in a world where water was dangerous...

Gotta beat our resident beer-geek (Godless) to the punch. Hurray for Small Beer! (and San Francisco's Anchor Brewing, for keeping an ancient craft alive)--

Anchor Steam - Anchor Small Beer



Ignore what BeerAdvocate.com has to say. AB's SB is quite enjoyable, especially on a hot day. Not sure if you can get it in Utah--but Bottleworks carries it here in Seattle.

--Erik

[Godless]

Originally Posted by ErikJohnson

Gotta beat our resident beer-geek (Godless) to the punch. Hurray for Small Beer! (and San Francisco's Anchor Brewing, for keeping an ancient craft alive)--

Anchor Steam - Anchor Small Beer



Ignore what BeerAdvocate.com has to say. AB's SB is quite enjoyable, especially on a hot day. Not sure if you can get it in Utah--but Bottleworks carries it here in Seattle.

--Erik

Never heard of it, though I've never had an Anchor beer I didn't like. The brewing process sounds interesting as well.

Originally Posted by BeerAdvocate

Anchor applied some "waste not, want not," as it's made by rinsing warm water (secondary runnings) over the mash of Old Foghorn, Anchor's seasonal barley-style wine. Very rare style these days.

[anatess]

Originally Posted by volgadon

There is a difference between small beer and strong beer. Small beers are the mild drinks, which were essential in a world where water was dangerous. Barley water was used to nurse people back to health.
Sadly, nobody knew bout kvass.
Alcohol would not be an evil IF people kept it under control. That however is rarely the case. I know very few LDS who think poorly of someone who is good and honest yet drinks a beer. I've seen what alcohol does. What alcohol brings along IS sexual immorality, robbery, murder, spousal and parental abuse, neglect, poverty, broken homes, lies, and so on.

I have to disagree with this statement. It is quite common to be responsible social drinkers. My father works for a beer company so we're always amongst people who drink beer. I grew up in the Philippines where alcohol is part of dinner and any social gathering. Although there are some who cannot hold their drink, most of the people I know can. It's a cultural thing, I guess. And of course, the Catholics drink wine at every Church service. I don't see any of my Catholic family and friends abusing spouses because of it.

I don't drink even when I was not LDS yet, because I can't stand the taste of the stuff.

And I do know the effects of too much alcohol on a person, therefore, my own family heed the word of wisdom.

But then, I find it idiotic when my husband's LDS family huff-and-puff in our family gatherings when my Catholic family starts passing out the beer bottles. Because, my husband's family are all overweight, unhealthy people while my family are athletic people in good health. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, I think.

It is always better to not judge others harshly.

[a-train]

Originally Posted by anatess

the Catholics drink wine at every Church service. I don't see any of my Catholic family and friends abusing spouses because of it...

...But then, I find it idiotic when my husband's LDS family huff-and-puff in our family gatherings when my Catholic family starts passing out the beer bottles. Because, my husband's family are all overweight, unhealthy people while my family are athletic people in good health. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, I think.

It is always better to not judge others harshly.

Thankyou. I recall all the Kirby Heyborne hatred that stirred among Mormons when he appeared in a Miller commerical. Anyone who cannot judge the good and evil between a man providing for his family and a person writing hate mail needs to take some lessons. The snobby better-than-you attitude will damn the Mormons a lot more than Miller time will ever harm the guys down at the tavern. At least they have a good time. Meanwhile I am supposed to believe those do-gooder haters have a real happiness unknown to the others. I've never heard someone say that they are so happy they are writing hate mail.

-a-train