Alcohol

[sjdean]

Originally Posted by Iggy

You are wrong here, alcohol is a poison. It destroys the body. It not only kills brain cells it does irreversible damage to nearly every organ in the body.

Even in moderation it still does the same irreversible damage.

Im sure we could spend a considerable amount of time spouting "Im right, you're wrong", and Im sure we can all provide a list of evidence supporting of our claims.

I just typed in the following search to google "brain cells alcohol moderation"...

The idea that alcohol kills brain cells has long been promoted.

The early temperance writers made this assertion and also insisted that the alcohol in their blood could cause “drunkards” to catch fire and burn alive. 1

This combustion argument against drinking was dropped long ago but many anti-alcohol writers continue to promote the idea that even moderate drinking causes brain cells to die.

Scientific medical research has actually demonstrated that the moderate consumption of alcohol is associated with better cognitive (thinking and reasoning) skills and memory than is abstaining from alcohol.

Moderate drinking doesn’t kill brain cells but helps the brain function better into old age. Studies around the world involving many thousands of people report this finding.

David J. Hanson, Ph.D
Does Drinking Alcohol Kill Brain Cells?

Of course the article goes on to say that alcohol abuse is a problem and can lead to problems, but new research shows that abstinence after abuse allows brains to repair themselves.

A study in 1999 that examined the brains of alcoholics appeared to confirm this. Published in the journal Neuroscience, the research found that subjects who developed Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, a severe disorder that ravages the memory and stems from a thiamine deficiency associated with alcoholism, had a marked reduction in cell density in the cerebellum.

But there was little difference between alcoholics who did not develop the syndrome and normal subjects, suggesting that it was largely a lack of thiamine in the Wernicke-Korsakoff patients that killed off their cells.

Other studies, including one published in The British Medical Journal in 1997, have produced similar findings.

THE BOTTOM LINE Alcohol may not kill brain cells per se, but it can impair brain function, among other things.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/health/23real.html

NEW research, to be revealed at a conference of some of the world's top neuroscientists in Cairns today, has found alcohol does not kill off brain cells as always thought.

For years imbibers have been told a big night on the drink wipes out entire sections of human brain cell function with much the same destructive equivalent as a napalm bombing strike.

According to Queensland Brain Institute director Professor Perry Bartlett, this is not true.

There is no evidence drinking alcohol leads directly to the death of brain cells, he said.

"Some of the best studies, done in Italy, show a bottle of wine a night can reduce the risk of dementia in old age," Professor Bartlett said.

In moderation, alcohol has positive benefits for blood vessel health and stroke prevention. And, as an added bonus, new brain cells are generated every day of our lives.

Research by Professor Bartlett and his team has found we all have an inbuilt repair kit replenishing the more than 100 billion cells - or neurons - in our brain.

Study finds alcohol doesn't kill off brain cells | NEWS.com.au



So you know what, I still don't say it's a poison - if used in moderation. Of course we are all aware of the dangers of drinking excess alcohol leading to Liver Damage and other bodily issues.

Im going to go with my thought that God thinks we're all irresponsible people blaming alcohol for our sins instead of being rational responsible people who are able to draw the line.

Course, Im not saying you should go against anything HF has commanded you, just don't tell me drinking in moderation is bad and all alcohol is a poison.

Cya
Simon

[AnthonyB]

How do LDS veiw Deut 14:26 "Use the money to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or orther fermented drink(KJV uises "strong drink"), or anything you wish."

Personally I don't see the upside to "grog", there is ample evidence of the destruction it can cause in people and families.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by lostnfound

you are right.i think I read it wrong..haa..but I agree alcohol is a poison no matter how you try to cover it. Although some doctors are saying a glass of red wine is good for you.

So was Strychnine and arsenic, foxglove. They are are poisons yet in very small doses they are medicines also. Nearly all of the medications today are made from toxic (poisonous) substances.

Alcohol is great for rubbing on your body when you have sore muscles, it also sanitizes and disinfects.

Why would you listen to mortal men when God has told us already that alcohol is not for the belly? Through His modern Prophets Father has told us to stay away from alcohol, to not abuse drugs, to eat healthily, etc.

I don't care how many doctors tell me that alcohol is good for me, nor how many people tell me that it is okay in moderation. I have seen the other side of alcoholism- Been there, done that, NEVER going there again. I have witnessed the damage that Moderate Alcohol drinking has done.

Take a good at people - see any with the big abdomen? The large, extended gut that is above the belt line? Go up to them and say- Hey what is your favorite Beer? How many a day do you drink? Drink anything more than just beer?

99% of the time they do drink beer and other alcoholic beverages. When that extended belly is is their liver sticking out. It is hard as a rock too. That is cirrhosis of the liver. Irreversable damage, deadly damage, life taking damage.

A co-worker of mine lost her father to cirrhosis of the liver. He wasn't an alcoholic, he only drank three 12oz beers a day, and on the weekends he would have 4 or 5 whiskey sours on Sat night and sunday nights.

He did this since he was 19 years old. Never got sloppy, slurring drunk.Thus they claimed he was not an alcoholic. He drank in moderation, so he couldn't have been an alcoholic. One quart of beer a day for 5 days and then a "few" hard drinks on the week end, Moderation. He died at the age of 49. Painful, painful death it was too.

Heavenly Father knows us, each and every one of us. He told us that "strong drinks" (alcohol) was NOT for the belly. I prefer to obey him and NOT listen to mortal man.

[Iggy]

[quote=sjdean;

Course, Im not saying you should go against anything HF has commanded you, just don't tell me drinking in moderation is bad and all alcohol is a poison.

Cya
Simon[/quote]

I am not saying you should go against anything that Heavenly Father has commanded you, just don't tell me drinking in moderatioin is NOT bad for me. I say all alcoholic beverages be it beer, wine, whiskey, vodka, near beer, etc are poisons.

The only good thing that gin is good for is washing windows and mirrors with. Though it is rather expensive and if one happens to be allergic to the juniper berries then it is rather painful!

I prefer to obey God's commandments and not obey mortal men when the things that they espouse go against the teachings of God and his modern day Prophets.

[lostnfound]

Originally Posted by Iggy

So was Strychnine and arsenic, foxglove. They are are poisons yet in very small doses they are medicines also. Nearly all of the medications today are made from toxic (poisonous) substances.

Alcohol is great for rubbing on your body when you have sore muscles, it also sanitizes and disinfects.

Why would you listen to mortal men when God has told us already that alcohol is not for the belly? Through His modern Prophets Father has told us to stay away from alcohol, to not abuse drugs, to eat healthily, etc.

I don't care how many doctors tell me that alcohol is good for me, nor how many people tell me that it is okay in moderation. I have seen the other side of alcoholism- Been there, done that, NEVER going there again. I have witnessed the damage that Moderate Alcohol drinking has done.

Take a good at people - see any with the big abdomen? The large, extended gut that is above the belt line? Go up to them and say- Hey what is your favorite Beer? How many a day do you drink? Drink anything more than just beer?

99% of the time they do drink beer and other alcoholic beverages. When that extended belly is is their liver sticking out. It is hard as a rock too. That is cirrhosis of the liver. Irreversable damage, deadly damage, life taking damage.

A co-worker of mine lost her father to cirrhosis of the liver. He wasn't an alcoholic, he only drank three 12oz beers a day, and on the weekends he would have 4 or 5 whiskey sours on Sat night and sunday nights.

He did this since he was 19 years old. Never got sloppy, slurring drunk.Thus they claimed he was not an alcoholic. He drank in moderation, so he couldn't have been an alcoholic. One quart of beer a day for 5 days and then a "few" hard drinks on the week end, Moderation. He died at the age of 49. Painful, painful death it was too.

Heavenly Father knows us, each and every one of us. He told us that "strong drinks" (alcohol) was NOT for the belly. I prefer to obey him and NOT listen to mortal man.

your speaking to a nurse just so you know. I am fully aware of the dangers of alcohol. That is why I do not drink. I would adhere any day to God's word over man.. So we are not in disagreement.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by lostnfound

wow..what church does that? I have never heard of that and I have been in lots of churches.

I suspect those Catholics, Orthodox, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Presbyterians use a form of non-water, they call "Sacramental Wine" in their chalices.

Wonder where they got such a notion from in the first place???

[lostnfound]

hmm we've always used grapejuice.

[sjdean]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I don't care how many doctors tell me that alcohol is good for me, nor how many people tell me that it is okay in moderation. I have seen the other side of alcoholism- Been there, done that, NEVER going there again. I have witnessed the damage that Moderate Alcohol drinking has done.

I would point out that if drinking causes an issue, then that drinking is anything but moderate. Abusive behaviour is not the cause of alcohol, but the cause is an abusive person.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Take a good at people - see any with the big abdomen? The large, extended gut that is above the belt line? Go up to them and say- Hey what is your favorite Beer? How many a day do you drink? Drink anything more than just beer?

Not a good example. You seem to suggest only fat people drink.

Fat people are fat, not necessarily through drink. Ask them how many McDonalds they eat. Also I know many thin people who like to drink.

Originally Posted by Iggy

99% of the time they do drink beer and other alcoholic beverages. When that extended belly is is their liver sticking out. It is hard as a rock too. That is cirrhosis of the liver. Irreversable damage, deadly damage, life taking damage.

Oh crumbs. I realise you're anti-alcohol, and your faith says you shouldn't drink it. Fair enough. But you seem to have adopted such incredibly bizarre thinking that 99% of fat people who drink have cirrhosis of the liver. If I could prove to you how blatantly untrue that is.

Originally Posted by Iggy

A co-worker of mine lost her father to cirrhosis of the liver. He wasn't an alcoholic, he only drank three 12oz beers a day, and on the weekends he would have 4 or 5 whiskey sours on Sat night and sunday nights.

Mmm hmmm. Regular drinker. Not an alcoholic. OK.

You are of course aware though that Cirrhosis has other causes...

Chronic Alcolholism, Hepatitis, Biliary Cirrhosis, Autoimmunie Cirrhosis, Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver, Inherited Diseases, Drugs, Toxins and Infections, Cardiac Cirrhosis - of course please don't let facts get in the way of an emotional knee jerk reaction.

Unfortunately, and this ties into my responsible and incorrect thinking on alcohol. Too many people hear the words cirrhosis and think of alcohol. Yet cirrhosis is the symptom: "Liver disease that involves scarring and damage of the liver cells and interruption of blood flow through the liver". It doesn't actually refer to any one cause.

Originally Posted by Iggy

He did this since he was 19 years old. Never got sloppy, slurring drunk.Thus they claimed he was not an alcoholic. He drank in moderation, so he couldn't have been an alcoholic. One quart of beer a day for 5 days and then a "few" hard drinks on the week end, Moderation. He died at the age of 49. Painful, painful death it was too.

What was the cause of the cirrhosis? Plus drinking every day without a break is quite clearly wrong and could in some circles be considered alcolic.

You seem to be taking an odd case, saying someone who drinks every day isn't an alcoholic but look at the damage alcohol causes therefore alcohol is bad.

Was he or was he not an alcoholic? What was the cause of his cirrhosis?

[sjdean]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I prefer to obey God's commandments and not obey mortal men when the things that they espouse go against the teachings of God and his modern day Prophets.

But getting it back on track to the original discussion, the different religions have different teachings of God, and of course, we need to follow our own beliefs and our own religious teachings.

So I have no problem with the Christian who wants to drink Beer, or the Mormon who doesn't want to drink Beer.

I, as a non Mormon, will do what I think is required of me. That includes having the freedom to enjoy whatever I consider to be allowed in my faith. I do not consider alcohol to be a poison for X, Y and Z reasons - clearly stated previously.

If I joined the Mormon church (four weeks to my first visit), I would duly give up alcohol. But I still wouldn't consider alcohol a poison or damaging to the body when drunk responsibly.

And no amount of repetition of "I knew this person who drank responsibly and still had problems" is going to persuade me otherwise. That person drank every day of his life, could be considered an alcoholic and in any event probably had cirrhosis due to something other than alcohol.

When I hear these gross exaggerations and sweeping statments about alcohol being the cause of abuse, or comments about fat people only being fat because they drink alcohol and have cirrhosis, I worry.

People are the cause of abuse, not alcohol. I know many "thin" people who drink and are not fat. I know fat people who don't drink!

Combined with my knowledge and my experience, when I hear these comments, I believe even more that if HF doesn't want us to drink, it's not because the responsible consumption of alcohol is damaging, it's because we're irresponsible. We are the ones who are damaging.

People have immature attitudes to alcohol. We equate alcohol with abuse and cannot separate one from the other. We don't know the first thing about drinking responsibly and staying in control. I figure HF is thinking, right, you've shown you're not responsible, you can't be trusted with drink so I don't want you to drink it - it's not for the belly.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by sjdean

Not a good example. You seem to suggest only fat people drink.

Original quote by Iggy: Take a good[look] at people - see any with the big abdomen? The large, extended gut that is above the belt line? Go up to them and say- Hey what is your favorite Beer? How many a day do you drink? Drink anything more than just beer?

Where do I say FAT? Where do I say obese? I did not, you misinterpreted that. I should have been more clear by saying that they have normal weight/size arms, lower torso, legs. That just their gut area below their chest and above their waist is extended,large, out of proportion to the rest of their body. Of the obese people that I know and have seen - NONE have guts (the area just below the chest and above the waist) that are rock hard!

I am anti-alcohol, it is a result of being the niece of two raving alcoholics, and married to an alcoholic for 25 years. It is also the result of my drinking myself senseless for 15 of those years too. I really don't think I was an alcoholic because I never craved it. I drank so that I would be drunk and not know what my husband was saying or doing. I drank because he put it in front of me and told me to drink. That if I didn't drink with him, then I wasn't loyal to him, that I didn't love him. When I quit, I quit cold turkey. The only thing I craved was sugar. I soon realized that I had to eat raw veggies instead of the sugars or I would end up obese in short time.

Originally Posted by sjdean

Was he or was he not an alcoholic?

Yes he was. That much is very obvious. Even his family saw that eventually, so did he.

Originally Posted by sjdean

What was the cause of his cirrhosis?

Alcohol.

Originally Posted by sjdean

You seem to be taking an odd case, saying someone who drinks every day isn't an alcoholic but look at the damage alcohol causes therefore alcohol is bad.

You are making more out of what I said than what I said. His family were the ones who were denying that he was an alcoholic.

Originally Posted by sjdean

<. . .look at the damage alcohol causes therefore alcohol is bad.

This I agree with totally! Alcohol causes great damage. Smoking causes great damage. Taking drugs that have not been prescribed to you by a licensed Doctor causes great damage.They ALL are BAD. Yes, you've got that one right.

Talk about knee-jerk reaction- what I have said has really hit a very raw nerve with you.

Please, go ahead and enjoy your alcoholic drinks. It is your agency, it is your body, it is your life. It is you who will have to answer to/suffer the consequences of those choices that you make with your agency. Just as I will answer to/suffer the consequences of the choices I make with my agency.

I choose to obey Father. When I was drinking and smoking cigarettes I chose to disobey Father and I also took responsibility for my wrong actions and I suffered the consequences of those wrong choices/actions. Now that I choose to obey Father, I am blessed by the consequences of those correct choices/actions.