The Magic of the language of Math

[Traveler]

Okay – I started a thread about magic and it went nuts. It also appears that no one seem to comprehend what I said in my first statement introducing the thread. So I will try to make this simpler.

First math is a language. It is a simple language with simple grammar. There are some very important things about the magical language of math:
. It is impossible to lie without being obvious to all that understand the language.
. You cannot even create a false statement if you use the language properly.
. You can know the future by special chants. For example you can prophesy exactly when you will arrive someplace knowing the distance and your speed.
. You can see into the past by special chants. For example you can force even rocks to tell you their age.
. You can see un-seeable things and know un-knowable things. For example you can understand the bending and folding of dimensions within the universe. Because dimensional space bends you can by mathematics understand and comprehend a 4 dimensional sphere and how all points are at the center and all points are boundary points and that the universe is a 4 dimensional sphere. Yes, there are things that cannot be seen or understood without mathematics – I have heard of no other means.

I could go on and on – but many do not want to believe in magic. Nor do they care or are able to comprehend that math is a tongue of angles a language of G-d. Many scientists do not want to accept the divine magical connection of math and few in religion understand the divine power even in creation appointed in mathematics – so they remain ignorant.

Math is itself a magical demonstration and prof of G-d.

The Traveler

[prospectmom]

Wow....... Thank you everything you just said makes total sense and I didn't even think Math was magical until you spelled it out for me so very clearly.........

Math a good magical thing..... All good things come from GOD

again all I can say is WOW and re-read and ponder what you posted

[Moksha]

I like the design of fractals.

[prospectmom]

Mosh so cool......

[UintahJack]

Traveler,
I don't claim to be an expert on math and have just begun to scratch the surface, after thirty years, but I do understand the beauty of it. Something that you are alluding to here. I could kick myself for getting Cs and Ds in the math classes all through junior high and high school. I was too busy playing around and then moaning, "I'm no good at math!" Then in college I actually started studying and had a few good profs and the light came on. Math is a language! Math is beautiful! Now I will sit down and read a math text just for fun. After my college-days epiphany I always encouraged my own kids to appreciate it and make studying it a top priority. Two of my sons are almost math geniuses, partially because of my encouragement, I hope.

[VisionOfLehi]

As both science (mathematics) and faith progress we consistently find that they become united. (Sociology, health, whatever it may be)

The simple fact is that both seek Truth, and ultimately there is but one source of Truth. As the two separate paths draw nearer it must needs be that they converge

Math is the "universal language." It is ever-present in the universe. It is a language built on laws.

We have learned it in steps...

Line upon line.
Precept upon precept.


It's an extension of the Priesthood, or in other words, it is the Will and Authority of God in action.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Traveler

First math is a language. It is a simple language with simple grammar. There are some very important things about the magical language of math:

As an atheist, many would probably be surprised at how many things I believe are miracles. In fact, I think mathematics IS the miracle, and everything exists, and can be explained by, mathematics.

While I also agree mathematics is magical, I do not believe in proves there is a god. In fact, I believe mathematics can stand on its own, and while mankind has not solved 99.99.9999 percent of the universe's mathematical foundations, I do believe they exist.

In fact, I’m not sure if there is a real distinction, when speaking of mathematics, between the miraculous and, what you perceive as the magical. I think "magical" is an excellent descriptor.

I believe the most profound miracle, that will one day be explained by mathematics, is the animal that evolved into the human being. What could be more miraculous than animals who exponentially gained so much applicable knowledge it solves problems once thought impossible?

Even more miraculous is this animal’s evolved capacity for empathy, sympathy, compassion and most of all, love. Without these, the species could not survive, but we did evolve with these capacities, and that is miraculous.

Another example occurred the moment I read, in a biography about Einstein, how his Relativity theory was proved when an astronomer observed, during an eclipse, that light did indeed bend.

I remember putting the book down so I could hang onto that thought, knowing it had changed the course of human history forever. It was very hard to wrap my brain around it, and still is. And it still thrills me just thinking about it.

I don’t know if string theory is seriously considered probable, but a few years ago I read an article that mathematically posited string theory predicted eleven parallel universes. That stunned me with its incredible possibilities.

In fact, the essay said it was possible our universe‘s big bag occurred when two of the parallel universes “touched” each other.

That makes perfect sense to me, although I know string theory is not testable yet. In fact, like I said, I’m not sure if it’s seriously considered a possibility any more. And if, one day, it is proven not true, I‘ll accept that, with the knowledge that mathematics is still going to explain what is, to us, currently unexplainable. And though I am sure I will be long gone, I know that whatever ends up being the true foundation, as defined by mathematics, will be miraculous.

I have no intuitive ability for math whatsoever, and I wish this weren’t so. However, I do believe I comprehend how miraculous the universe is, and everything in it. I am especially stunned the moment I hear about a major discovery, such as Hawking Radiation. I was here to see it, and that is a miracle.

I also know, though with no idea when, that mankind will go on to write proof after proof after proof, mathematically solving problems we don’t even know are there to solve yet.

So, yes, I agree mathematics is magic, and it is also miraculous. In fact, I just love the word “mathematics.“ It literally rolls off the tongue, and frankly, I always feel people perceive me as more intelligent than I really am when I say it.

Go ahead and say it. Mathumatixx. See what I mean?

Elphaba

[MarginOfError]

. You cannot even create a false statement if you use the language properly.

This is not quite accurate. You most certainly can make a false statement while still using the language properly. But mathematics strives to assign all such statements the value of FALSE.

Math is itself a magical demonstration and proof of G-d.

I'm going to disagree, but don't see this as a situation where only one viewpoint is correct. I view mathematics as a system of logic around which we've constructed a precise language. Every conclusion, theorem, and result we've developed in mathematics is a result of intense logical scrutiny. I see nothing miraculous about the logic. What I do find miraculous is the creativity with which mathematicians are able to apply the logic to reach the conclusions.

I'm also not sure I agree that mathematics is proof of God. Mostly because mathematics makes certain assumptions (13 assumptions to be exact). If any one of these assumptions is proven wrong, then just about everything we know about math goes down the tubes.

Tangentially, what I do find interesting is that John starts his Gospel talking about the Word. 'Word' was translated from the Greek Logos, which is also the word math is based on: logic. So does that mean logic and reason are divine? I, for one, believe so.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I like the design of fractals.

Thank you for expressing your interest in fractals. In a few posts in the past I have made vague reference to fractals and their abilities to calculate extreme (complex) ratios and relationships. Fractals are the basis of chaos theory. Chaos theory is the basis of every argument surrounding the preservation of endangered species, predicting the weather and the bases for concerns of global warming (naming but a few).

For example, in global warming even though carbon based gases make up less than 10% of the aggregate greenhouse gases; the minor carbon elements can play a major role in the overall result – that is the theory. Fractals are used to map the most extreme cases on the overall effect of the whole from the minor elements of a complex system. I referenced extreme cases in determining possible social effects of large scale changes in marriage. Many posters – obviously with no background in fractals, mathematics and no understanding of chaos theory displayed their intellectual folly through ignorantly demonizing and name calling such scientific use of an issue they have formulated and concluded their opinion based on non-reverent made up political correct sounding bias of personal desire. Is short the magic of mathematics very quickly uncovered their ignorance and the insanity in attempting to address any such issue logically.

Mathematics is so magical!

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Quote:
. You cannot even create a false statement if you use the language properly.
This is not quite accurate. You most certainly can make a false statement while still using the language properly. But mathematics strives to assign all such statements the value of FALSE.

The binary construct of true and false is as you say is imbedded in mathematics. But the overall statement is always true. That is, when the construct of math identifies something as false – that identification is always true. Often we think of mathematics as a vehicle to prove something to be true – mathematics is just as effective at proving something false – which is a true assessment of the condition. So it is impossible to lie which was the basis of my comment.

Quote:
Math is itself a magical demonstration and proof of G-d.

I'm also not sure I agree that mathematics is proof of God. Mostly because mathematics makes certain assumptions (13 assumptions to be exact). If any one of these assumptions is proven wrong, then just about everything we know about math goes down the tubes.

The fact that math exist and can be useful outside of our understanding of it proves that things can exist and be useful outside of our understanding. To imply that G-d does not exist outside of our understanding means that in order to draw such a conclusion the person using such logic must therefore be able to demonstrate that point where something that we do not understand can no longer exist and be useful. But the infinite nature of math and through permutations and probabilities indicates that conclusion is most unlikely.

The Traveler