A Catholic " HI "

[ceeboo]

Originally Posted by Islander

Ceeboo:

I also appreciate inquiry and research. I would caution you, however that in order for the process to be productive and thus rewarding one needs to "design" the experiment and conduct research in a careful and systematic fashion in order. Such as to avoid the pitfalls of contaminating the findings with erroneous data. In summary, I would suggest the you read the Book of Mormon cover to cover. Take in the text, the doctrine, the language and the context. Then, you can come back and ask questions if you have any about very specific items.

I have noted that you are pulling information from diverse sources (some not very reliable) in a somewhat disorganized fashion. That makes the process cumbersome an d not quite efficient. Read the message and then we can talk about the messenger. The reliability of the message is the critical portion here. Try to follow that sequence and see what happens. The truth can not be so complex and veiled that the average person with the help of the Spirit can not find it.

Hi Islander,

First, I do appreciate the advice and perspective given ( I believe it to be sincere )

I do agree with you in regard to potential bias and contamination with respect to sources
( That applies both ways )

Although I really do appreciate the advice to read the BOM cover to cover, It is not a desire that I have. What I do desire ( if you are interested ) is to try and gain some perspective from the believers of the BOM (LDS) directly from the LDS.

God bless,
Carl

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi Islander,

First, I do appreciate the advice and perspective given ( I believe it to be sincere )

I do agree with you in regard to potential bias and contamination with respect to sources
( That applies both ways )

Although I really do appreciate the advice to read the BOM cover to cover, It is not a desire that I have. What I do desire ( if you are interested ) is to try and gain some perspective from the believers of the BOM (LDS) directly from the LDS.

God bless,
Carl

Interesting that you desire a LDS perspective - but in truth it is the perspective of the L-rd and his wisdom that is the much more worth while quest and concern. If something is in error there is no benefit in knowing it without knowing that which is not in error.

I once did some consulting with the Federal Reserve Bank and in a discussion I learned that there is only one fool proof (and legal) method of identifing that which is real tendor from counterfit. It is the only way to avoid counterfits - it might surprise you concerning your current method of questions about the Book of Mormon because I believe the method will work as well with religion - but that is my opinion.

The Traveler

[ceeboo]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Interesting that you desire a LDS perspective - but in truth it is the perspective of the L-rd and his wisdom that is the much more worth while quest and concern. If something is in error there is no benefit in knowing it without knowing that which is not in error.

I once did some consulting with the Federal Reserve Bank and in a discussion I learned that there is only one fool proof (and legal) method of identifing that which is real tendor from counterfit. It is the only way to avoid counterfits - it might surprise you concerning your current method of questions about the Book of Mormon because I believe the method will work as well with religion - but that is my opinion.

The Traveler

Hi Traveler,

Your first point ( with all due respect ) is largly assuming the truth of the very text under discussion. If one does not believe " IT " to be true then reading or digesting the contents of it seems a mute point.

" My method of questioning " counterfit tendor, I am sorry but that went way over my head.

God bless,
Carl

[Islander]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi Traveler,

Your first point ( with all due respect ) is largly assuming the truth of the very text under discussion. If one does not believe " IT " to be true then reading or digesting the contents of it seems a mute point.

" My method of questioning " counterfit tendor, I am sorry but that went way over my head.

God bless,
Carl

I think I tried to outline a more efficient research method before. In essence, if you approach ANY thing with suspicious eyes and preconceived notions and ideas it IS a mute exercise. You MUST suspend those and analyze the text on its own merits, on your own, seeking reason and logic within the confines of your own mind and discernment from the Spirit. After all, you have no (or little) evidence for the bible either but a bona fide acceptance of it driven by traditions, which is OK I guess for now.

Resistance to "new" knowledge and information is to a certain extent normal and predictable. Now, in order to grow, transform the new data into actionable information you have to resist your temptation to bring in previous "experience" or encapsulated thinking. Simple; some of what you may now learn crates cognitive dissonance (sounds strange) or even perhaps feel that it contradict (which I can prove it is not so) what you thought you knew. The other part is that nobody likes to realize he/she has been wrong for so long. So it does take humility in that sense to entertain the possibility that you indeed may have been mistaken, misled or simply were taught incorrectly.

The key here is the true intent of our heart. The rest is just like Alma proposes:

"Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me." Alma 32:28

You should try it.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi Traveler,

Your first point ( with all due respect ) is largly assuming the truth of the very text under discussion. If one does not believe " IT " to be true then reading or digesting the contents of it seems a mute point.

" My method of questioning " counterfit tendor, I am sorry but that went way over my head.

God bless,
Carl

I was making a comparison of why someone believes tender to be legal or counterfeit and why someone believes any given scripture is of G-d or man. I believe there are some amazing parallels. You may have faith or believe the money you have is legal but that does not change the fact of if it is nor not. The same applies to scripture, including the Bible. You may believe it to be of G-d, you may even think you are sure but that does not change the reality of if it is of G-d or man.

So I thought I would ask you – what you think is the proper method to determine if something is of G-d or man. Or if you wish – how do you know if the money you have is good legal tender or counterfeit? I thought it very interesting what my friend at the Federal Reserve Bank told me about determining for sure if money is legal or not. Sometimes things you learn about the physical world are just as valid concerning the spiritual world and vice versa. This is because of the transitivity of Truth.

I am also conducting a test – to determine how based in reality you and your opinion are. While you are examining us – I thought I would examine you.

The Traveler

[ceeboo]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I was making a comparison of why someone believes tender to be legal or counterfeit and why someone believes any given scripture is of G-d or man. I believe there are some amazing parallels. You may have faith or believe the money you have is legal but that does not change the fact of if it is nor not. The same applies to scripture, including the Bible. You may believe it to be of G-d, you may even think you are sure but that does not change the reality of if it is of G-d or man.

So I thought I would ask you – what you think is the proper method to determine if something is of G-d or man. Or if you wish – how do you know if the money you have is good legal tender or counterfeit? I thought it very interesting what my friend at the Federal Reserve Bank told me about determining for sure if money is legal or not. Sometimes things you learn about the physical world are just as valid concerning the spiritual world and vice versa. This is because of the transitivity of Truth.

I am also conducting a test – to determine how based in reality you and your opinion are. While you are examining us – I thought I would examine you.

The Traveler

Hi Traveler,

I did not think I was examining you ( sorry if that is how it is coming across ) my true intention was to try and gain perspective of what and why you believe what you do.
If you would like to examine me, I have no problem with that. I can give you a head start if you wish, goes something like this{ I am a 40 year old male, no college education, had very little spiritual life to mention, made several poor choices, went through a personal journey to try and find peace and truth in God and after a while I landed in the Catholic Church. If you would like any further information about me ( to help in your examination ) please feel free to ask.

I did not realize I was conducting a test, but I will play along. The scripture accounts of the life, teachings, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ is the central bank in which I draw from to determine truth or non truth ( from God or man as you put it ).

I hope me and my reality have measured up to your expectations.

God bless,
Carl

[abqfriend]

Hi Carl -I am also a Roman Catholic. As you have questions about the LDS faith tradition and the Book of Mormon, I encourage you to read the Book of Mormon. I am doing that. I am reading the Book of Mormon with an open mind. I let it speak to me.
You have legitimate questions. Al faith traditions have unanswered questions-which ultimately reside on faith. I try not to focus on the small points of unanswered questions I may have without first focusing on the larger picture. You will find that the Book of Mormon is very Christ centered. As a Catholic, You and I may differ on different doctrines between Catholics and the LDS Church, but you will find that Jesus Christ is the center of their teachings and beliefs.
-so my advise-is go to the source-The Book of Mormon and then The Doctine and Covenants which further define the understanding and teachings of the LDS Church.
Like the Bible, both are considered as authoritative/sacred by the LDS Church.
-Carol