LDS Missionary Encounter - Page 3

FunkyTown · #21 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 11:25 AM

I think there may have been some miscommunication. Mark Driscoll is a pretty famous person and the Mars Hill group is fantastic. But Mark Driscoll -is- quite the character, in a totally non-condescending way.

I remember this last year on Easter when, in order to show people the true suffering that occurred on the cross, they suspended a man on a cross for the duration of his preaching up in the Mars Hill chapel in Seattle. It stirred up quite a lot of controversy.

Mark Driscoll is intelligent, interesting and erudite. I think maybe it was just a miscommunication. I like him, personally.

bytor2112 · #22 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 10:31 PM

Starting a New Religion?
In keeping with Packer’s line of reasoning, I asked him if those who are “heretical” in promoting homosexual activity while declaring themselves to be Christian are in effect promoting a new religion based upon a false gospel, like Mormonism and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. He said, “You could describe it that way and it’s what they are doing.”- Mark Driscoll

This is from Mark Driscoll......a character indeed. I imagine it is easy to get offended when your wife is married to a "former" church member and attends a church that is Pastored by someone who equates Mormonism as a false gospel..duh.

bytor2112 · #23 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 10:41 PM

More from Resurgence and Mark Driscoll:

What does Resurgence believe about primary issues?
We are first Christians, second Evangelicals, and third Missional.

1. We are Christians, which distinguishes us from other world religions (e.g. Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism) and cults (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism). Therefore, we adhere to both the Apostles' and the Nicene Creeds.

I'd say he is a character alright........do you think he would respect our young missionaries as "preachers of the word of God"? I am sure Mrs. Johnson was exasperated, being approached by a "cult" representative. "All knowing" missionaries???? Labeling the LDS a cult and telling Missionaries that her husband became a Christian three years ago, as if the LDS Missionaries were not?! The story is a bunch of baloney written by someone who has swallowed a bunch of baloney and has the same arrogant attitude that his Pastor has. I live in the South and am surrounded by "all knowing", non- denominational, born again, religious bigots who take it upon themselves to determine who is and isn't Christian.

FunkyTown · #24 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:05 PM

Bytor? While I love that you're passionate about this, I want to point out something:

The LDS church disagrees with Mark Driscoll on several points he considers key. Of course he calls us false. If he didn't, he would be LDS. Mark Driscoll doesn't hate members of our church. He's a genuinely nice guy who loves his fellow man.

So, to reiterate: Of course he thinks we're wrong. If he didn't, he'd be LDS. That's a fair statement.

bytor2112 · #25 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

I think there may have been some miscommunication. Mark Driscoll is a pretty famous person and the Mars Hill group is fantastic. But Mark Driscoll -is- quite the character, in a totally non-condescending way.

I remember this last year on Easter when, in order to show people the true suffering that occurred on the cross, they suspended a man on a cross for the duration of his preaching up in the Mars Hill chapel in Seattle. It stirred up quite a lot of controversy.

Mark Driscoll is intelligent, interesting and erudite. I think maybe it was just a miscommunication. I like him, personally.

Since reading this thread I have had the opportunity to read a bit on Mark Driscoll. This guy doesn't have a clue what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is really about and sadly I suspect that the members of his church don't either. You may find him interesting and intelligent and erudite (?? certainly not erudite with regard to the Gospel), I find him to be arrogant and ignorant. Their is nothing Christ like about his comments. He decribes Jesus as a Pride fighter with a tatoo down his leg and a sword in his hand.......

This guy is so bombastic and spews this testosterone, faux-macho rhetoric. Why anyone would believe the non-sense that this guy sells is stunning. Tough guys for Christ?? More likely, arrogant, loud mouths who don't undertand Christ. Mr. Johnson was dealt a terrible disservice when he left the Lord's church for this bombastic, steroid approach to priestraft.

FunkyTown · #26 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bytor2112

This guy is so bombastic and spews this testosterone, faux-macho rhetoric. Why anyone would believe the non-sense that this guy sells is stunning. Tough guys for Christ?? More likely, arrogant, loud mouths who don't undertand Christ. Mr. Johnson was dealt a terrible disservice when he left the Lord's church for this bombastic, steroid approach to priestraft.

And, as a secondary part of what I had said about Mark, the same applies to you: Of course you don't believe what Mark Driscoll preaches. If you did, you'd be part of Mars Hill. Have you ever heard any of Mark Driscoll's sermons? They're well-thought out and well reasoned. If you listen to him with a need to hate him, you will, but that's not God's way. Love Mark the way you should love all men and recognize he's passionate about Christ and you'll be on your way.

Then, you can comment on what you think of his sermons in a well-reasoned and charitable way. Until then, it's probably best not to dwell on how you feel about him.

bytor2112 · #27 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

Bytor? While I love that you're passionate about this, I want to point out something:

The LDS church disagrees with Mark Driscoll on several points he considers key. Of course he calls us false. If he didn't, he would be LDS. Mark Driscoll doesn't hate members of our church. He's a genuinely nice guy who loves his fellow man.

So, to reiterate: Of course he thinks we're wrong. If he didn't, he'd be LDS. That's a fair statement.

With all due respect, there are plenty of denominations who do not refer to the church as a cult. I do not know the man personally and if you say he is a nice guy, that may well be. But, he doesn't understand the Gospel or the nature of the Savior or the Saviors mission and is so evidenced by his bombastic comments. He is not any kind of example of manhood that I would teach my two sons or an example of Christ that I would wish for them to follow.......

Mark Driscoll authored the following:
Roughly two thousand years ago, Jesus was born in a dumpy, rural, hick town, not unlike those today where guys change their own oil, think pro wrestling is real, find women who chew tobacco sexy, and eat a lot of Hot Pockets with their uncle-daddy. Jesus’ mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was mocked for claiming she conceived via the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted a crazy story to cover the “fact” she was knocking boots with some guy in the backseat of a car at the prom. Jesus was adopted by a simple carpenter named Joseph and spent the first thirty years of his life in obscurity, swinging a hammer with his dad.

FunkyTown · #28 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:51 PM

Okay... What Mark's doing there is illustrating exactly what type of person Jesus was in the language that would best be understood by the people he was preaching to. He -did- grow up in a small town that few people respected(John 1:46 'Can any good thing come out of Nazareth'). Jesus' Mom -was- poor and unwed when he was conceived. An angel had to tell Joseph not to break off their engagement. Jesus' first 30 years -were- spent in relative obscurity. We don't know what he did in that time, but when he returned to preach in his land of birth people skeptically didn't believe him: Hence the 'No prophet is honoured in his country'(Luke 4:24) which was so famous.

It sounds like you're upset because he's speaking familiarly of things you hold sacred. I agree. I don't think it's appropriate, but he's trying to reach people that don't feel like God is speaking to them. He's using their language. He does it out of love. Nothing he preached in the quote you gave is against biblical teachings.

bytor2112 · #29 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

And, as a secondary part of what I had said about Mark, the same applies to you: Of course you don't believe what Mark Driscoll preaches. If you did, you'd be part of Mars Hill. Have you ever heard any of Mark Driscoll's sermons? They're well-thought out and well reasoned. If you listen to him with a need to hate him, you will, but that's not God's way. Love Mark the way you should love all men and recognize he's passionate about Christ and you'll be on your way.

Then, you can comment on what you think of his sermons in a well-reasoned and charitable way. Until then, it's probably best not to dwell on how you feel about him.

FunkyTown,

First of all, I don't hate Mark Driscoll or anyone else for that matter. I have not heard his sermons..... I have however read portions of some. Well thought out and reasoned?? Based on what? He is passionate about his understanding of Christ and his view of manliness, perhaps. But that doesn't make him good or right. My comments are about his sermons and I feel that what we say is usually a good indication of what is on the inside. Remove his references to Christ and you have what sounds like an arrogant, bully that enjoys making fun of what he doesn't understand. I don't think the world needs a bunch of Mark Driscoll Clones preaching the Gospel according to Mark........

Contrast this type of commentary with that of an Apostle or your Bishop and ask your self which is uplifting and edifying and brings the Spirit. Again, I have no hatred or malice, but I do get fired up about people like him. He does more harm than good, IMO, and it is sad that 6000 people could gladly recieve this kind of message.... again just my opinion.

bytor2112 · #30 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

Okay... What Mark's doing there is illustrating exactly what type of person Jesus was in the language that would best be understood by the people he was preaching to. He -did- grow up in a small town that few people respected(John 1:46 'Can any good thing come out of Nazareth'). Jesus' Mom -was- poor and unwed when he was conceived. An angel had to tell Joseph not to break off their engagement. Jesus' first 30 years -were- spent in relative obscurity. We don't know what he did in that time, but when he returned to preach in his land of birth people skeptically didn't believe him: Hence the 'No prophet is honoured in his country'(Luke 4:24) which was so famous.

It sounds like you're upset because he's speaking familiarly of things you hold sacred. I agree. I don't think it's appropriate, but he's trying to reach people that don't feel like God is speaking to them. He's using their language. He does it out of love. Nothing he preached in the quote you gave is against biblical teachings.

I am glad you agree that it is not appropriate. The LDS church has missionaries all over the world as you know. What kind of people is Mr. Driscoll preaching to? Aren't our missionaries teaching the same kind of people? I find his comments about people who do not fit into his ideal of manliness ignorant. How many wonderfully spiritual people have I met and been influenced by, that would be be criticized by his mischaraterization of manliness. Countless, I am sure. A guy in my Bishopric, one of the most spiritual men I have ever met, is also one of the biggest, toughest guys I have ever met and also one of the most genteel men that I have ever met. He would make Mr. Driscoll feel imasculated just by being in his presence. Anyways, it is just a difference of opinion. Mr. Dirscoll will have his chance to hear and recieve the truth one day as will all humankind. Again, I am not trying to offend you FunkyTown.........