We can become gods?

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by chriscb

How old was Joseph Smith Jr. when he "figured that out"? Joseph Smith was 24 years old when the Book of Mormon was first published. I don't think he even touched on the subject of a plurality of gods until March 20, 1839 (the early Nauvoo, Illinois period). So, I'm curious to know why you would mis-characterize JS as "a young farm boy" when clearly this is not the case.

I mean that the information was not available to Joseph Smith, and that he was basically uneducated for much of his life.

Meanwhile, scholars with big degrees have been studying the Bible and Ancient Near East for centuries, but only in the last few decades have they, as a group, begun to learn that Joseph was right on this one.

As for the question of plurality of gods and Isaiah 43:10, this is Yahweh (son of Elohim, who was given Israel as his kingdom to rule) telling us that he is the first and last ruler of Israel. Next door in Canaan, their god fell and was replaced by Baal.

Isaiah 43:

1 But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
....
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
14 ¶ Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships

We have here Yahweh speaking to the people of Israel, and no one else. He references other nations that have competing gods that are falling. He even explains that he has overcome the gods of Babylon and the Chaldeans. He is stating that he is stronger than them all, while those gods have been known to fall (as mentioned above).

Context is extremely important in understanding the Bible. It is too easy to take a verse out of context, ignoring the real meaning of the scripture.

[Hemidakota]

I am sure; we will come to understanding in our days the true meaning behind this title: JESUS CHRIST. I am not referring too our elder brother, Jehovah [not to take away from Him is stand at our head]; the importunacy of this name may give us a greater understanding whom that all us look forward too in our eternal progression. I do believe it goes beyond this earth and our FATHER’s dominion.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Old Tex

I marvel at how far some folks go in taking a verse out of context in an effort to obscure one of the most beautiful teachings to come out of the bible. And in this case it is compounded because it's an old "standard" anti-mormon charge rather than being original with the one who posted it.

Old Tex

I marveled how many in the church will appease the world or sensored what is truth.

[chriscb]

Originally Posted by Interested

Yes, I can expound. I think its more likely the man was blinded so the people could see God having victory over evil than to think the man was blinded because billions or how many years ago he sinned in a previous life.

Edit- By the way, I do believe in pre-existence, I just don't see any scriptural evidence for it.

I agree with you. The Bible does not teach the LDS concept. If a person wants to know about the preexistence, I'd point them to latter-day revelation rather than the Bible.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

I am sure; we will come to understanding in our days the true meaning behind this title: JESUS CHRIST. I am not referring too our elder brother, Jehovah [not to take away from Him is stand at our head]; the importunacy of this name may give us a greater understanding whom that all us look forward too in our eternal progression. I do believe it goes beyond this earth and our FATHER’s dominion.

If I'm understanding you (and if so, I agree), you are referring to the concept that in baptism and Sacrament we "take upon" ourselves the name of Christ.

The name "Jesus" is short for Yehoshua/Joshua and means "God/YHWH saves". The name "Christ" is Greek "Khristos" for "Anointed one."

When Jesus makes us "kings and priests unto the God and his Father" (Rev 1:5-6), we will be anointed and become a savior (Jesus is Savior with a capital "S"). We can save others through preaching to them, take our ancestral dead to the temple for baptism, etc. And we are anointed to be "heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ."

Hemi, is this what you were thinking?

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by rameumptom

If I'm understanding you (and if so, I agree), you are referring to the concept that in baptism and Sacrament we "take upon" ourselves the name of Christ.

The name "Jesus" is short for Yehoshua/Joshua and means "God/YHWH saves". The name "Christ" is Greek "Khristos" for "Anointed one."

When Jesus makes us "kings and priests unto the God and his Father" (Rev 1:5-6), we will be anointed and become a savior (Jesus is Savior with a capital "S"). We can save others through preaching to them, take our ancestral dead to the temple for baptism, etc. And we are anointed to be "heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ."

Hemi, is this what you were thinking?

Dang. I want to serve in a Bishopbric or Stake Presidency with you and Hemi.


HiJolly

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by rameumptom

As for the question of plurality of gods and Isaiah 43:10, this is Yahweh (son of Elohim, who was given Israel as his kingdom to rule) telling us that he is the first and last ruler of Israel. Next door in Canaan, their god fell and was replaced by Baal.

Ugh. I must disagree with you vocally on this. No. The bible doesn't state God is just the God of Israel. Genesis is very specific in pointing out God as the creator and organizer of everything. That's the overarching theme for Genesis and Numbers (All those begats are not just random items. They draw the conclusion that we are all part of a massive family).

This sort of reasoning you're putting is just wrong and would -definitely- be pointed to by much of mainstream Christianity as heresy. Because it is. For those who know me, I have never... Ever... Used the word heresy. I have called people misled. I have disagreed with them. This is actual, full fledged, dyed in the wool heresy.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

Ugh. I must disagree with you vocally on this. No. The bible doesn't state God is just the God of Israel. Genesis is very specific in pointing out God as the creator and organizer of everything. That's the overarching theme for Genesis and Numbers (All those begats are not just random items. They draw the conclusion that we are all part of a massive family).

This sort of reasoning you're putting is just wrong and would -definitely- be pointed to by much of mainstream Christianity as heresy. Because it is. For those who know me, I have never... Ever... Used the word heresy. I have called people misled. I have disagreed with them. This is actual, full fledged, dyed in the wool heresy.

It's an unusual but justified view of things, FT. Ram's been reading scholarly books again-- which often leads to heresy. Guess that's why I'm somewhat of a heretic, too. Well, that and a few revelations I had...

There's a lot in the scriptures we don't know about. Perhaps if you spoke Hebrew and could contextualize it from the time it was written, you'd be surprised at what is there.

(musing sort of to myself) It's interesting how our perspective on scripture changes, when we begin to be a prophet ourselves...


HiJolly

[rameumptom]

The Bible actually supports the concept of a divine council led by El Elyon/Elohim, who IS the God of all the universe. Ancient tradition stated he had 70 divine sons, and he divided the earthly inheritance among all 70 (see the 70 families in the division after the Flood). Yahweh, as eldest and best son, was given the top prize of Israel.

Later, as many of the other divine beings lost their rule, Yahweh stepped up and became God of the earth. Later Jews updated the Torah to combine Elohim and Yahweh into one being, which started the concept of monotheism in Israel. It did not start with Moses, btw, but later on.

Isaiah 6 is an example of this divine council, with the seraphim as divine children of El, sitting at his throne. Isaiah is representative of Christ in accepting the call to be sent.

Job 1 tells us about Lucifer and other divine sons going into heaven to challenge Yahweh on his rule over Israel.

There are more examples, if you'd like. The reality is, the evidence of a divine council is strong, and that there were divisions and struggles in that divine council. We see it in Moses 4:1-4, as well. It is LDS and early Jewish belief.

[ruthiechan]

It is my belief that most of those other gods in other nations mentioned in the Bible are the different names and faces of Satan since those other gods led the people away from the belief in their Savior and righteous living.

We know that God would send different prophets in various countries to preach the Gospel which is intended for everyone. Christ's sacrifice is for everyone. However, this does not stop people from following other paths, including false ones, either by choice, lack of understanding/knowledge or because of the choices their parents made thus causing them to be taught and follow false traditions.