We can become gods?

[Interested]

Christianity has mopped this up, Christianizing a lot of paganism. Festivals based on the zodiac have been Christianized, including Christmas, Easter, Candlemas (which is known in America as Groundhog Day), All Saints Day (which has given way to Halloween), et cetera. Local deities have been replaced by the names of early Christians, but their worship continues as the veneration of saints. Christianity has struggled to reaffirm the basic monotheism of Judaism while deifying a human being: Jesus of Nazareth. For most Christians, the culmination of this effort has been the doctrine of the Trinity, whereby God becomes one god, but in three forms. When he's in Heaven, he's God; when on earth, he's Jesus; when he dwells in your heart, he's the Holy Ghost.

This is somewhat misleading. Orthodox Christianity states that the Trinity is God. This does not mean that Christianity has struggled to be monotheistic like Judaism. It is monotheistic. If God can be omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent, then why not one literal God in three persons. There is no struggle to put this into an Orthodox perspective if you think closely enough.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

True, but remember that Orthodox Christianity was formulted by numerous councils attended by philosophers, scholars, bishops of conflicting ideas, the first few and most famous being presided over by a pagan emperor.

[Interested]

On the other hand, this is the same Orthodox Christianity Huegenoths died over.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

What I said is not an attack on the people dieing for their beliefs, nor for the zeal or faith they showed that lead them to martydom. It's just cold hard fact that I was stating.

It's like if someone stated a piece of fact about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and someone were to say, "On the other hand, this is the same doctrine that Joseph Smith and the saints suffered and died for." Regardless of people's belief in something that doesn't remove fact.

Not to demean the martyrdom of the Huguenots, nor any other demoniation of any other religion.

[AnthonyB]

In an exasperated tone he moans...."Ye gods and little fishes"!

Quoting Moksha quote from another forum....

"Christianity has struggled to reaffirm the basic monotheism of Judaism while deifying a human being: Jesus of Nazareth. For most Christians, the culmination of this effort has been the doctrine of the Trinity, whereby God becomes one god, but in three forms. When he's in Heaven, he's God; when on earth, he's Jesus; when he dwells in your heart, he's the Holy Ghost.

Mormons have upset the applecart by insisting that Jesus was not God, the Father, that his conversations with God were not cunning acts of ventriloquism, that when (at Jesus' baptism), God said, "This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased," Jesus wasn't resorting to blue smoke and mirrors. Jesus was not a flesh puppet, nor was he throwing his voice. Nor was Jesus an illusion, as some once contended, in their effort to work out the math."

Firstly a man wasn't deified, TC's see it the other way round. A person of God became flesh and dwelt amongst us, a man did not become God.

Secondly TC's do not see Jesus as being a ventriloquist, pretending to talk to the Father, they are seperate persons. Capable of communicating and expressing emotions to each other. It is not "three forms" but three persons.

"When he's in Heaven, he's God; when on earth, he's Jesus; when he dwells in your heart, he's the Holy Ghost."

The above line is what we would "modalism". TC's believe Jesus was a person of God before his incarnation, remains to this day our high priest in the true temple in heaven and will return in his ressurected form to earth. The Holy Ghosts role in the trinity is to be God that can be within all believers, but he still remains a person within the trinity, even if there were no believers for him to indwell He would still be a person of God.

Still think the BoM gives a better defence of trinitarianism then the Bible.

BoM 3 testimonies

"And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God."

BoM Title Page

"And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God"

Simple IMHO the BoM declares there is "One God" and "Jesus is the Eternal God." The LDS scriptures clearly declares one God and that it there are other Gods, then they cannot be eternal ones.

BoM -Introduction

"Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” "

Can any of the LDS posters from the BoM (and not from any other work) show me a text that clearly states that there is 3 Gods (or more) and that are only one in purpose? (I understand you see that doctrine as coming mostly from latter revelations but I'm just curious as to if and where you would see support for that belief in the BoM.)

[Hemidakota]

Here I thought, someone knew the biblical versus....here is one for you, what did Stephen see when he was being stoned at the hands of Saul [Read Acts}? Whom did he witnessed as the heavens parted?

[AnthonyB]

Hemi,

I don't have a problem with the persons existing in differing spatial locations. The idea that the Father was crucified when the Son was, was declared heretical very early on.

I expext to see Jesus as a resurrected man in heaven. I really don't know how to describe the Father, John's descriptions clearly show he was blown away by the sight, although I might concede that if He so chose we could perceive Him in human-like form.

Why do LDS always use the seperation of the persons to deny the oneness of God? I suppose for me, a perfect person would be unified whilst still be themselves. That is the goal that God has set for all of us to become ever more perfect so that we may become ever more one with Him.

[Hemidakota]

The Godhead are in unison as to the Plan of Salvation for HIS children, which we are created in HIS image [see Genesis]. Anthony, they are three distinct beings. Now, to describe the FATHER, if you had seen the Son, face-to-face, the only difference would be a very slight height and facial differences. The Holy Ghost on the other hand, is unique and very different from the FATHER and the Son.

As to being in unison as the Godhead, all the FATHERs throughout this universe are in unison...

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Interested

This is somewhat misleading. Orthodox Christianity states that the Trinity is God. This does not mean that Christianity has struggled to be monotheistic like Judaism. It is monotheistic. If God can be omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent, then why not one literal God in three persons. There is no struggle to put this into an Orthodox perspective if you think closely enough.

G-d cannot be omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent and be the only one of his "kind". The flaw of the Traditional Trinitarian (monotheistic) G-d is that he can only deal with that which is inferior and flawed and G-d therefore, lacks the power, intelligence, grace and everything else needed to deal with another being like himself - yet he demands that all his creation do this very thing that he cannot.

Personally I like the concept that he deals very well with things that are like him and he does not lack the intelligence or the power to bring man up to his level (with no limitations). Not only can G-d come and live among us (Jesus is this example) but it is possible for man to be exalted and live (quite comfortably and happy) with him. I always wonder when someone thinks they have a personal relationship with G-d and yet they also believe that they have nothing truly in common with him. I guess being personal with someone means something different to me.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

To answer that question for others on what Stephen witnessed being stoned:

¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth.

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. – Acts 7:54-56