The Trinity Questions – For Traditional Christians

AnthonyB · #1 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 06:00 PM

LDS often post questions that make me think they don’t fully understand what non-LDS believe. I have written some questions that I would like non-LDS Christians to respond to and hopefully if we get enough responses, LDS will have a better understanding of what we believe.

1) Are the persons of the Trinity capable of expressing emotion to each other? (ie can they love each other)

2) Are they capable of communicating with each other?

3) Can they be in differing spatial locations? (ie differing places, the Father was not crucified with the Son)

4) Will Jesus maintain his resurrected body in heaven?

5) Is holding to the historic creeds…

a. essential for salvation
b. good for spiritual health but not an absolute requirement
c. not important
d. other…Please specify

My answers.
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) Probably b

BenRaines · #2 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 06:16 PM

So I understand. Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father were crucified? Was the Holy Ghost too? Can be in different places but are the same God?

Ben Raines

AnthonyB · #3 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 06:25 PM

Ben,

Mis-post on my part, have amended so explanation bit fails in line with the answer of the question. Being in differing places means that the Father was not crucified with the Son.

Misshalfway · #4 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 07:14 PM

Do "traditional Christians" as you put it, believe that we are created in the image of God?

If so, then how is that possible when the trinity is nothing like us? (that is how it appears to me at least)

If Jesus will retain his perfected resurrected body, then doesn't this fundamentally change the nature of the trinity? And doesn't that mean that at one time he did not have one? How can they be one person ever again after a resurrection? And then does the Father have a body too? Does the holy ghost have a body too? Why would the Lord come to get a body if being a spirit was superior? What is the purpose in doing so...if he/it is already everything he needs to be and has been that way thru the eternities?

Why did God the Father call Jesus his son if he in reality was not his son at all, but a part of him or expression of him?

If you were to see the trinity in person, what would it look like?

And isn't part of the description of the trinity that they have no parts or passions? Why the questions about emotions? And how can they have no parts....but be resurrected?

Did Moses believe in the trinity? Did Adam? Did they teach the trinity in the 10 commandments or in the Law of moses? Did Jesus teach the trinity? If so where?

When Jesus came to earth, why did he pray to the Father? Why did he ask the Father to bless the people? Why did he defer to the Father and say so many times that he only did the will of the father? Why was he allowed to be tempted? Why did he ask why the Father had forsaken him? I ask all of these and wonder why he would talk to himself in such a manner as a servant or as someone who deferred to someone of higher authority.

What is the purpose of the creation of man from the perspective of the trinity? Why was there a need for a sacrifice? Why are we invited to become like something that is impossible to become?

Yes....I have many questions. But I figured it was ok to ask since the OP seems to want LDS people to understand. So....there are my questions....the things that confuse me. Maybe you can help me understand.

AnthonyB · #5 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 07:33 PM

Miss Halfway,

Thanks you your posts, there are answers to your questions? (You most probably won't like them all) I was however to attempting to ascertain how many social trinitarians there are amongst traditional christians, and the questions are aimed to discover that.

Your questions deserve a good answer, do you mind if I answer them on a new thread?

Misshalfway · #6 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 07:38 PM

I am sorry if I misunderstood the purpose of your post. You bet. I would love to understand. Frankly, there isn't any other doctrine from mainstream Christianity that confuses me more than the Trinity.

And don't worry if I like the answers or not.

I am ONLY seeking to understand. I will be looking for the new thread.

prisonchaplain · #7 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misshalfway

Do "traditional Christians" as you put it, believe that we are created in the image of God?

Not in the LDS sense--not physically. Since we believe God is Spirit, then we do not "look like" God. However, yes, God's Spirit is within us, we are made to carry his love, his mercy, his righteousness, etc. To be made in the image of God is different from being his literal children.

Quote:

If Jesus will retain his perfected resurrected body, then doesn't this fundamentally change the nature of the trinity?

Why? God is still omni-present, omnipotent and omniscient. Jesus remains "one with the Father." The three are still one. That Jesus retains his body does perhaps forever draw us closer to our Creator, and perhaps that is a part of the Father's plan of salvation?

Quote:

And doesn't that mean that at one time he did not have one? How can they be one person ever again after a resurrection?

They have always been distinct persons, but one God. That Jesus retains his body does not change that.

Quote:

And then does the Father have a body too? Does the holy ghost have a body too?

No. In fact, Jesus said it was good that he leave, so the Holy Ghost could come, and presumably minister to all of us at once.

Quote:

Why would the Lord come to get a body if being a spirit was superior? What is the purpose in doing so...if he/it is already everything he needs to be and has been that way thru the eternities?

To fulfill the atonement. Recall that Philippians says Jesus gave up his equality with God and made himself a little lower than the angels. His incarnation was an abasement he willingly accepted for our sakes.

Quote:

Why did God the Father call Jesus his son if he in reality was not his son at all, but a part of him or expression of him?

We believe that Jesus is God the Son, not a part of the Father...but one with him.

Quote:

If you were to see the trinity in person, what would it look like?

Isaiah 6 gives a good picture...we'd fall to our knees, or lie prostrate, and beg God not to kill us, due to our unholiness.

Quote:

And isn't part of the description of the trinity that they have no parts or passions? Why the questions about emotions? And how can they have no parts....but be resurrected?

God is one. Jesus is God the Son, now incarnate. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons, one God. How that nature works exactly is indeed a divine mystery...but we know that the three persons are God, and that there is only one God.

Quote:

Did Moses believe in the trinity? Did Adam? Did they teach the trinity in the 10 commandments or in the Law of moses? Did Jesus teach the trinity? If so where?

Neither the Trinity, nor that God had a Son. Does that mean Jesus is not God the Father's only begotten Son?

Quote:

When Jesus came to earth, why did he pray to the Father? Why did he ask the Father to bless the people? Why did he defer to the Father and say so many times that he only did the will of the father? Why was he allowed to be tempted? Why did he ask why the Father had forsaken him? I ask all of these and wonder why he would talk to himself in such a manner as a servant or as someone who deferred to someone of higher authority.

Jesus deferred to his Father, as a dutiful Son is commanded to do. However, his deference is no indication that he is of a lesser species than the Father. Again, Philippians 2 informs us that Jesus DID NOT consider it robbery to be equal with God, but gave it up to make himself a little lower than the angels, to become God in the flesh.

Quote:

What is the purpose of the creation of man from the perspective of the trinity? Why was there a need for a sacrifice? Why are we invited to become like something that is impossible to become?

Not sure I understand the last question, but from the beginning, we were created to worship God, part of which included the offer of sacrifices.

Quote:

Yes....I have many questions. But I figured it was ok to ask since the OP seems to want LDS people to understand. So....there are my questions....the things that confuse me. Maybe you can help me understand.

I jumped in--Andy can fill in any gaping holes I've left.

Misshalfway · #8 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 07:48 PM

Thank you PC. Frankly, I have more questions. Uh oh.

I think perhaps I need a definition of the trinity. Does everyone in traditional Christianity believe in the same definition?

It sounds to me like you are saying that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are indeed three different, individual entities, but that they are one God. Well, frankly that sounds closer to the definition of the Godhead. I was under the impression that the Trinity was that one god could split itself into three parts depending on the purpose of the mission.

What does God look like? If the son is a separate being than the father and he has a resurrected body, I am pretty sure I can guess he looks like you and me. But you say the Father doesn;t???

#9 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 07:53 PM

Hi anthonyb ,

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. E

A whole new thread

God bless,
Carl

abqfriend · #10 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 08:44 PM

Me too! I am a Catholic and the doctrine is somewhat difficult to understand. The early church discussed such challenges and came to understand such a concept of God as Trinity. The word Trinity is not found in Sacred Scripture, but neither is the word Sacrament. The word Trinity attempts to explain one of the fundamental doctrines of the majority of Christians. Am I right-and you wrong?-who knows?-I sure don't. I do not make such a judgement on matters of faith. I guess we will all find out someday.

As a Catholic Christian-I am Trinitarian in my belief-but the doctrine can be difficiult to understand. We spend much time learning about it in our Church Sacred Scripture Study and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is the base of some of the ancient creeds of my Church.

My faith does not depend on a deep understanding of the Trinity. My faith is rooted in how I understand the teachings of my Church as related to Christ's death and resurrection and how I view such an event in my life-and the changes that have occured in my life as a result of that event.

Like you-I accept the teachings of my church as being true.
To do otherwise, I would not call myself a Catholic nor you a member of the LDS Church.
It is good to try to understand the teachings of other faith traditions-which is one reason why I am here-to be challenged, to grow in my own faith and to learn of the faith traditions of other wonderful Christians like yourself.
-Carol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misshalfway

I am sorry if I misunderstood the purpose of your post. You bet. I would love to understand. Frankly, there isn't any other doctrine from mainstream Christianity that confuses me more than the Trinity.

And don't worry if I like the answers or not.

I am ONLY seeking to understand. I will be looking for the new thread.