So what is wrong with the Nicene Creed?

[LittleWyvern]

You're (meaning not only you but most everybody else in this thread) making this too complicated. When you ask Mormons why they don't believe in the Nicene Creed, they really want to say "The First Vision." Our faith and religion hinges on that one event.

[gabelpa]

I'm still looking for something to actually comment on. The Unitarians believe as we LDS do, and do not follow the Nicene Creed. We just don't believe in the personage of God that is laid out in that Creed. Why is that so difficult to accept?

[Maureen]

I agree with the Nicene Creed, but my favorite is the Athanasian Creed.

[LittleNipper]

Originally Posted by LittleWyvern

You're (meaning not only you but most everybody else in this thread) making this too complicated. When you ask Mormons why they don't believe in the Nicene Creed, they really want to say "The First Vision." Our faith and religion hinges on that one event.

Interestingly, Stephen seems to see GOD's glory and JESUS CHRIST standing to the right of this glory...

International Standard Version (©2008)
But Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
But Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit. He looked into heaven, saw God's glory, and Jesus in the position of authority that God gives.

King James Bible
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

American King James Version
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

American Standard Version
But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Bible in Basic English
But he was full of the Holy Spirit, and looking up to heaven, he saw the glory of God and Jesus at the right hand of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looking up steadfastly to heaven, saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And he said: Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Darby Bible Translation
But being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God,

English Revised Version
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Webster's Bible Translation
But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Weymouth New Testament
But, full of the Holy Spirit and looking up to Heaven, Stephen saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand.

World English Bible
But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Young's Literal Translation
and being full of the Holy Spirit, having looked stedfastly to the heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

[bytor2112]

"When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" - Joseph Smith

[LittleNipper]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

"When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" - Joseph Smith

How might this conflict with the following?

Hebrews 1:3
International Standard Version (©2008)
He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.

King James Bible
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

American King James Version
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

American Standard Version
who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Bible in Basic English
Who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

Darby Bible Translation
who being the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, having made by himself the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high,

English Revised Version
who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Webster's Bible Translation
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself made purification of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Weymouth New Testament
He brightly reflects God's glory and is the exact representation of His being, and upholds the universe by His all-powerful word. After securing man's purification from sin He took His seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

World English Bible
His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself made purification for our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Young's Literal Translation
who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,

And also this?

International Standard Version (©2008)
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

King James Bible
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

American King James Version
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

American Standard Version
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

Bible in Basic English
Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Darby Bible Translation
who is image of the invisible God, firstborn of all creation;

English Revised Version
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

Webster's Bible Translation
Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature:

Weymouth New Testament
Christ is the visible representation of the invisible God, the Firstborn and Lord of all creation.

World English Bible
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Young's Literal Translation
who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,

[beefche]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I don't hold it to be "scripture," but as a Christian I do hold it to be a reasonable guide to what the Bible says...

I'm not sure what the point of this thread. Without searching, I'm sure there have been endless discussions on the nature of God.

However, to answer the question from my point of view:

A lot of this quote is what I believe. However, there are a few major things that I don't believe. For example, "...being of one substance of the Father..." I believe that God the Father, God Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct individuals. They are all One God and I worship them. However, I believe that they are not one substance. I don't understand that concept. I'm sure this has been brought up countless times, but how can God the Father proclaim His Son, while Jesus is being baptized, and while the Holy Spirit is being manifested by a dove at the same time? Furthermore, after learning of the First Vision of Joseph Smith in which he clearly describes 2 individuals--God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ--appearing before him, I prayed about it. The answer I received was that this is correct doctrine--they are 3 persons.

I don't believe in the one holy catholic and apostalic Church. I DO believe however, that God has established His kingdom and Church on earth.

[bytor2112]

Not at all, how do you see it conflicting?

[LittleNipper]

Originally Posted by beefche

I'm not sure what the point of this thread. Without searching, I'm sure there have been endless discussions on the nature of God.

However, to answer the question from my point of view:

A lot of this quote is what I believe. However, there are a few major things that I don't believe. For example, "...being of one substance of the Father..." I believe that God the Father, God Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct individuals. They are all One God and I worship them. However, I believe that they are not one substance. I don't understand that concept. I'm sure this has been brought up countless times, but how can God the Father proclaim His Son, while Jesus is being baptized, and while the Holy Spirit is being manifested by a dove at the same time? Furthermore, after learning of the First Vision of Joseph Smith in which he clearly describes 2 individuals--God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ--appearing before him, I prayed about it. The answer I received was that this is correct doctrine--they are 3 persons.

I don't believe in the one holy catholic and apostalic Church. I DO believe however, that God has established His kingdom and Church on earth.

Well, look at it this way. My dad is made of flesh, blood and bone. "I", my dad's son, am also made of flesh, blood and bone. We are both made of the same substance, but we are two individuals. The FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT are all GOD stuff. They are three beings but are all GOD stuff.

As for the Catholic Church, I see that as being the Universal CHURCH --- the body of ALL SAVED INDIVIDUALS that ever lived. No matter where that individual maybe found, as a saved individual, he/she is part of the Universal CHURCH.

[Misshalfway]

I think the more powerful question is "What is RIGHT with the Nicean Creed?"

1500 years is impressive, I will agree. But truth is eternal It was in the beginning and is the same now. I want truth from the beginning of time and the consistency of that truth over the expanse of peoples and cultures and counsels of learned men doing the best they can.