Do "Born again" Churches Seriously Believe This?!

[thews]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

So...are you still astonished at my faith?

yes

[Galatians220]

Originally Posted by thews

Well, if people from 0 Ad to 1820+ were deprived of God's word. where do they land? How can one be judged if they didn't know?

Thews, what do you think about my post in reply to Carl on the first page?

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Carl62

But I'm not asking Mormons Elphaba, I'm asking people of "born again" type churches. I think you need to go back and re-read my post, o.k.?

Why would you expect to find a significant sampling of "born again" type churches on a Mormon Message board?

My point is, Mormons justifiably get angry when people ask non-Mormons to describe what Mormonism is; thus, the "Ask a Mormon" program.

I say the same policy applies in your situation. The claims you've heard, and passed on, are provocative, and any questions about them should be answered by those who hold to those beliefs, which as far as I know, excludes Mormons.

However, It looks like PC is doing a good job, so perhaps mine is a moot point.

Elphaba

[prisonchaplain]

Elpha...you are many things...but never MOOT.

[Carl62]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Why would you expect to find a significant sampling of "born again" type churches on a Mormon Message board?

My point is, Mormons justifiably get angry when people ask non-Mormons to describe what Mormonism is; thus, the "Ask a Mormon" program.

I say the same policy applies in your situation. The claims you've heard, and passed on, are provocative, and any questions about them should be answered by those who hold to those beliefs, which as far as I know, excludes Mormons.

However, It looks like PC is doing a good job, so perhaps mine is a moot point.

Elphaba

Elphaba - AGAIN, I am not asking Mormons to describe a non-Mormon teaching. What part of that don't you understand? I am asking this to the handful of people on this board who are of the non-denominational type churches and there are some on here. So what is it about these "claims" that you say is so provocative? They're just mere questions concerning some teachings that I know are prominent in the non-denominational churches that I've wondered about for some time. I'm not trying to be antagonistic in any way, shape or form. I am sorry that you are this touchy that a mere question sets you off like this. Relax Elphaba, it'll be o.k.

[RiversideGuy]

Originally Posted by Carl62

I got to thinking the other day about something I heard at a fireside a number of years ago when a General Authority said that from the time of Christ 'til now, approximately 70 billion people will have inhabited the earth. That figure of 70 billion stuck in my head after that talk and what I was wondering is do the Christian religions who teach that unless you accept Jesus as your personal Savior you will really go to an everlasting, literal burning lake of fire where you will be tortured day and night forever and ever? When you think of that figure of 70 billion, can you honestly say AT LEAST HALF of those people will be in such a fiery state, especially since most "born again" style religions teach that the majority will NOT make heaven? DOES THIS MEAN THAT WELL OVER 35 BILLION PEOPLE WILL BE BURNING FOREVER AND EVER???!!!! That's over 5x our earth's total population right now!!! I cannot possibly fathom such a thing as that!!! Also, are all these people in the center of the earth right now, according to what most Christian churches teach? What about the people that lived for 4,000 years before the time of Christ where nothing about a lake a fire was ever taught in the Old Testament? Are they in for a fiery surprise when they die? Just honestly trying to understand all of this. Thanks.

When one considres the fact that EVERYONE is worthy of eternal damnation, it is comforting that GOD chose to even provided a means to save anyone at all. There are levels of punishment ----- see Matthew 10:15 "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 11:22 "Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

Eternity is just a forever now...

I might add that God speaks in terms of rejecting HIS salvation. It is possible that those who have not heard ----- that GOD knows their heart and their responce to such a salvation. It may also be that such people would have rejected HIM anyway and since they didn't hear, their burden is much lighter...

We cannot suppose to judge GOD.

[AnthonyB]

Carl62,

If you want to read an interesting take on the question of hell then can I recommend CS Lewis' "The Great Divorce".

I won't do Lewis the disservice of poorly expressing the picture he creates but will quote George McDonald, who is quoted in the book, "No, there is no escape. There is no heaven with a little of hell in it -no plan to retain this or that of the devil in our hearts or our pockets. Out Satan must go, every hair and feather."

So rather then asking how many will God save, you should be asking how many will wholeheartedly surrender and accept the gift of grace through faith that leads to salvation without trying to bring a little of hell with them by refusing through one means or another the free gift. In the end we cannot know or demand how God will treat others, we can just cling to the promises of salvation he has made us and proclaim to all that will hear it.

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

LDS theology on this matter is certainly "kinder and gentler." It seems fairer. But, if it's not accurate, if it does not correctly reflect God's plan of salvation, than the teaching could lull sinners into a false sense of security. So, I opt for the teaching that I find in my Bible, rather than the one I find more attractive.

And this is the middle ground/bottom line. Carl.. if you do not mind me asking -- how is our doctrine really any different? If one does not make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.. it is taught that they are in effect damned. Hell is Hell.. both versions sound painful.

(D&C 43:33) "And the wicked shall go away into unquenchable fire, and their end no man knoweth on earth, nor ever shall know, until they come before me in judgment."

(3 Nephi 27:11) "But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return."

[RiversideGuy]

Originally Posted by bmy-

And this is the middle ground/bottom line.

But is lukewarm somewhere where GOD desires us to be?

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by RiversideGuy

But is lukewarm somewhere where GOD desires us to be?

Who says that the middle ground must be lukewarm? Perhaps the LDS view is the lukewarm one.. as it is neither hot nor cold

The LDS Church has not always had a ban on alcohol, etc. Even post-Word of Wisdom moderation was still the key. Now.. it's 100% abstinence. It seems plain to me that sometimes God would rather us err on the side of caution.. which seems to be exactly where PC is.