Being of God

[Ivo_G]

Can someone please give a definition of "being" (as in "united in one being"). I know the meaning associated with the word in a Trinitarian context is different from the traditional everyday usage of "being" - however, having grown up as a (Greek) Orthodox I always thought that even if "united in one being" doesn't mean united physically -> at least it would mean they are united on some psychological/psychic/whatever level (don't know how to say it better) something akin to the Borg perhaps

However, I did a little online research and all definitions I managed to find talked about attributes, characteristics etc. all of which in no way, shape or form make the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost one "creature" (so to say) - at least no more than the LDS deffinition of "Godhead"

Am I missing something? If so - any clarifications are most welcome.

[Connie]

What scripture are you looking at? Where in the Bible does it say "united in one being?"

[Ivo_G]

lol...nowhere of course - but it's in the Trinity definition and I was just wondering what exactly does "being" mean in that context

[beefche]

Are you asking what Tritarians believe "being" means? Or are you asking what LDS believe "being" means? I'm a little confused by your question.

[Ivo_G]

Trinitarians of course - I'm not aware of any special meaning of "being" in LDS context...

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough

[Maureen]

Ivo_G, Jason_J has already explained this very well in a previous thread. I am going to copy and paste his post.

Originally Posted by Jason_J

As already mentioned, one need to understand the meaning of the words being used, especially because the Trinity doctrine is over 1000 years old, and therefore:

-1) it wasn't formulated by English speaking people
-2) the words being used by us are translations (and translations of translations)

Therefore, it is always helpful to go back to the Greek and Latin and learn what those words mean. The most important word to understand is "being". An LDS person would have no problem saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings (or use "person/personage" interchangeably with "being"), because they are using that word ("being") in its modern usage, where "being" is used interchangeably with "person" (i.e. human being=human person).

This is not possible with the Trinity. A Trinitarian would have no problem with someone saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons, but they would never say that they are three beings, because of what the word "being" means in its original context. The word translated as "being" in reference to the Trinity comes from the Greek word "ousia", which means "essence, being, nature". As you can see, it has nothing to do with "person", and cannot be used interchangeably with "person". Instead of saying "being", the word "substance" is also used. Substance is a translation of the word "substantia" from Latin, which in turn is a translation of the Greek "ousia".

So that is it. You have to remember that Trinitarians are not using the word "being" in its current meaning or usage (where it is used interchangeably with "person"), but the way that it was used over 1000 years ago when the Trinity doctrine came around, when the Greek word "ousia" was being used, and it was referring to the essence or nature of something. This is extremely important if one wants to understand what the Trinity is actually talking about.

Here's another one:

Originally Posted by Jason_J

Quite simply, "being" ("ousia", "substantia") refers to the divine nature. The three distinct Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are of the same, one and only, divine nature. They are each fully divine/God because they are all of the same nature, and nothing/no one else is. The way that the Persons are one does not preclude them being three, because they are one and three in entirely different ways. "Being"/"nature" refers to what they are (namely, divine), and Person refers to "who" they are.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

Frank Sheed in his book "Theology and Sanity" (essentially an indepth overview of the Catholic "plan of salvation") emphasizes the use of "nature" as a translation of "ousia", instead of "being", which is something that I personally favor, as it avoids the confusion that the word "being" brings due to its modern usage. Ousia is variously translated in Trinitarian discourse as "being", "essence", "nature", and "substance" (from the Latin "substantia", which is a translation of ousia).

M.

[MrShorty]

In short: I read those kinds of descriptions and I still end up with some variation of "Three members of One [perfect] team." or "One species with a population of three individuals." (That's the biologist in me.) Which is fine if that's really what it means, but somehow I don't get the impression that anything along those lines is adequate.

Granted the "species" idea leaves too much room for individual expression. Jesus was quite insistent that he didn't do anything independent of the Father. But, at least in discussion with LDS, Trinitarians seem to balk at a description that describes Them as perfect individuals on a perfect team. Which still leaves me struggling to understand what is meant by "being" or "nature" or "essence" or "substance" which makes a "three being" God monotheistic.

[Ivo_G]

Thanks Maureen the second definition was particularly helpful...however, I still don't see how that definition makes God "one creature/entity"

Originally Posted by MrShorty

"One species with a population of three individuals."

that's exactly how it sounds to me too - imagine some major world catastrophe that destroys all but 3 humans -> will they be a Trinity too (human not divine of course)?

[Maureen]

For traditional Christianity, there is only one being that is divine and that is God; and scripture says there is only one God.

M.

[Jason_J]

Originally Posted by Ivo_G

Thanks Maureen the second definition was particularly helpful...however, I still don't see how that definition makes God "one creature/entity"
p

That's because the Trinity doctrine doesn't "make God 'one creature/entity'". Trinitarians believe that God eternally exists as three distinct Persons.