Here are some questions I would like to pose…

[rameumptom]

Proposing:
If a Mormon can claim to be Christian can a Muslim claim the same? Islam believes in the Bible as Christians do. They believe in Jesus (in that he was a prophet). They say they believe in the same God as Christians. They say that they were given the continued and true gospel of God. They too believe in salvation through works.

No. There's a major difference. Muslims do not view Jesus as their Savior, nor as God. They do not worship Jesus, but honor him as a prophet inferior to Mohammed. We believe Jesus is our God and Savior. We believe that salvation comes through the atonement of Christ, and that keeping the commandments is needed to determine the level of salvation we obtain. Those issues are very different than Islam teaches, where Jesus is not required for salvation - Mohammed and the Islamic rites (prayer, the Haj, etc) are required.

[rameumptom]

Proposing :
How can a Mormon say he is Christian by his own opinion when other Christian denominations do not agree because they do not share the same doctrine? I.E… God always was and always will be, there are no other gods, Jesus is God, and we are saved through Christ and not through works because we can never be good enough through ourselves…. Wouldn’t this be equivalent to me calling myself the President even though nobody else agrees with me?

Why are Protestants Christian, when they've broken off from the Roman Catholics? There are differences in doctrine, but we all believe and profess in Christ as Savior. That should be sufficient to be considered a Christian.

Now, we can discuss differences in doctrine. Are LDS members Trinitarians? No. Are they traditional Christians, no. Suddenly, we have used additional terms to limit who is/isn't a member. But the term "Christian" must apply to any and all that embrace Christ as Savior (that does not include Muslims, who only see him as a prophet and nothing more).

[VoluntaryPrison]

Essentially, this is all one very big and eternal pyramid scheme, and we're on the bottom. Sucks to be us doesn't it.

[rameumptom]

Last night on tv, I watched the old movie, Hawaii, with Max Von Sydow and Julie Andrews. Von Sydow is attempting to Christianize Hawaii. He comes from a strict order of Christianity, and the council of elders are quick to excommunicate anyone and everyone.
The queen actually wished to be baptized, but Von Sydow refuses, as she is married to her brother, King Kamehameha. He tells her that they must be separated, or she will burn in hell. She finally does it on her death bed, but her son and many others fall away from Christianity, because Von Sydow preaches a jealous and vengeful God.
At one point, a child born deformed is drowned by the Hawaiians. Julie Andrews accosts her husband, Von Sydow for not saving the child. He mourns that the child was not baptized before being drowned, and Andrews emphasizes that he could have saved the child's life. Instead, while the child was being drowned, he was preaching to the natives of how the deformed child was a sign from God that they were being evil.

Over time, several events soften Von Sydow's heart, especially a measles epidemic, and the death of his own wife. He learns to love the people and teach Christ's forgiveness and grace. Still, the rest of the elders remain staunch in their angry God ideals, believing that God has allowed them to humble the natives by taking their lands for sugar crops, and working the people to death.

Unfortunately, this is the background for much of Protestantism. While many of their churches now preach a gentler and kinder God, there still is a background of who fits and who doesn't fit the preacher's view of what makes a person a Christian.

[NDD18]

The fact is we can't fully understand these things, we as human beings cannot understand eternity. That is the major flaw with your questions.
Whats important is that there are many god and many lords, but we worship only one, and that is our heavenly father. no one else is important concerning our salvation and growth in this mortal life. We believe we are all spirit children of our father, and that he too was at some distant time one himself. Thats the only thing we can say about it. Everything else is logical guessing.

In the scriptures we are told that the purpose of this life to learn to become one with our father in heaven, as Jesus was with him. We become joint heirs with Christ. So, although there are many gods, they are one God, because they are one in purpose. That purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Our Heavenly father is mentioned as the God of gods, he created through his son Jesus Christ many worlds.

thats all I have for the subject.

[S2LR]

Originally Posted by Proposing

If god is only the god of this world, where did the other worlds come from and why are they lifeless? Why have we not discovered life on other worlds yet?

In Genesis is says that God created the stars. If you believe there are other worlds with other gods then none of these had stars or suns.

If the Bible claims that God is eternal, then how could he have become a god?

In answer to the first two paragraphs, we must appeal to scriptures that Latter Day Saints hold sacred just as the Bible. If you have access to the Perl of Great Price, please read Moses 1:30-40. In these scriptures, you will notice that God's creations are numberless to man but numbered to him. In other words, God's creations are not infinite in the mathematical sense. They are, however, numberless to man...even computerized man! (see Neal A. Maxwell "O Divine Redeemer" November Ensign 1981)

As for life on other worlds, in our Doctrine & Covenants we read "That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God". The reference to "him" is referring to Jesus Christ who we believe created the universe under the direction of God, the Father. We know from the aforementioned scripture that there IS life on other worlds. The scientific community with its current technology will not fully substantiate this fact. The current state of the art in physics and astronomy is trying to prove that there are other planets that "could" have life sustaining properties. They have found a few as potential candidates but they are a far cry from "proving" that life exists on these worlds. Even if we were able to see or detect that life exists on other worlds, the images or detections we would get are really relics of a distant past and have nothing to do with our present time since it takes light or any other form of electromagnetic radiation hundreds or even thousands of years to reach the earth! That creates another host of problems and questions. The best science could hope for is to conclude that life "did" exist on a world a long time ago, far, far, away. For the time being, we will have to have faith and go off what the Lord says in modern day scriptures that life has existed and does now exist on other worlds.

As for your last question, this is a good one and one that has perplexed many and caused much confusion. The usage of the word "eternal" is synonymous with the term "God". In other words, eternal life is God's life or the kind of life that God lives. Endless and eternal are synonymous as well. The word "God" as used in the scriptures is also used as a title and in many instances is not referencing a single individual. When we hear that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one "God", it does not mean that they are one and the same in substance. It means rather that they are one in purpose and presidency and that they hold the same office or title as members of the Godhead.

As Latter Day Saints, we do believe that God the Father was once as we are now and is an exalted man who now dwells in yonder heavens. So how do we resolve this idea with what is taught in the Bible that God is "eternal" or has existed forever? There are a couple ways to look at this. The first way to think of this is that when God came to be God, he "spiritually" created you and I and that was the beginning of us in eternity. In other words, when the scriptures speak of eternity, they speak of eternity on our own understanding. In this context, God is eternal from our point of view. A more complex view of resolution on this subject involves the doctrine of the eternal nature of intelligence as viewed by Latter Day Saints. God's intelligence (just as man's intelligence) has existed forever and there is no creation about it (see D&C 93:29-30). In this sense, God as an entity of intelligence has always existed forever, albeit in different states of progression. In fact, man is co-eternal with God himself when viewed in this light (no pun intended)! I believe these two explanations adequately resolve the apparent conflict.

I hope this hasn't muddied the waters too terribly. Hopefully it will give a further desire for thought on the subject...

[rameumptom]

while the entirety of God and his creations are beyond our comprehension at this time, we do believe we can comprehend many things right now. We also believe that the day will come when we will comprehend God perfectly. I'm not sure how that would apply in a Trinitarian belief, where God is unknowable and incomprehensible, primarily because he is of a different substance than we are or will be in the eternities.

I can comprehend what it is to be a child or parent, though on a smaller scale than God does in LDS theology. It isn't a matter of different, but more of a matter of scale between the things I create and the things he creates, of the children I raise and the children he raises, of the challenges I face and the challenges he faces, of the truths I know and the truths he knows.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Proposing

How can a Mormon say he is Christian by his own opinion when other Christian denominations do not agree because they do not share the same doctrine? I.E… God always was and always will be, there are no other gods, Jesus is God, and we are saved through Christ and not through works because we can never be good enough through ourselves…. Wouldn’t this be equivalent to me calling myself the President even though nobody else agrees with me?

What I do when I want to find out the meaning of a word, say for example, "Christian". I would not try to ask for a consensus, but rather go to the dictionary and seek the primary definition of the word Christian. I urge you to try this method. Skip the other checklists for they are ultimately meaningless.

[Mathonihah]

Originally Posted by Proposing

If god is god through procession (he is god because he served his god, who served his god, who….), then that implies that at some point there was a god who always was god or that found a way to become a god on his own. Which is it?

If there was an original god would that mean that the god of this world is a lesser god and that since his power came from this original god that he is not all powerful?

If god is only the god of this world, where did the other worlds come from and why are they lifeless? Why have we not discovered life on other worlds yet?

In Genesis is says that God created the stars. If you believe there are other worlds with other gods then none of these had stars or suns.

If the Bible claims that God is eternal, then how could he have become a god?

If a Mormon can claim to be Christian can a Muslim claim the same? Islam believes in the Bible as Christians do. They believe in Jesus (in that he was a prophet). They say they believe in the same God as Christians. They say that they were given the continued and true gospel of God. They too believe in salvation through works.

How can a Mormon say he is Christian by his own opinion when other Christian denominations do not agree because they do not share the same doctrine? I.E… God always was and always will be, there are no other gods, Jesus is God, and we are saved through Christ and not through works because we can never be good enough through ourselves…. Wouldn’t this be equivalent to me calling myself the President even though nobody else agrees with me?

Thank you for your responses.

OK, Every heard the song by W.W. Phelps, "If You Could Kie to Kolob" ? Thats the beauty of eternity. There is no beginning and there is no end. Think about it... how can something(or someone) have a beginning(or birth or start), if the wasnt something there to initiate(or create)? So I think youre reasoning that this iterative God who became God implies that there is an ultimate God is faulty. The only way you can get exalted is to have an exulted Being exault you. Sorta like your in quicksand and the only way to get out is to have someone pull you out who is on firm ground.

answer to 2nd question: God's glory derives from His children ("This is my work and my gloy, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man (Moses 1:39)). God's Father's glory is more than God's insofar as God's Father has more exalted posterity(including God). It doesn't mean He is more intellegent(more-all knowing, more all-seeing) though. It is my understanding that once you reach Godhood, you only progress insofar as your posterity does(i.e. more glory is added to you as your posterity gets exaulted).

answer to question 3: Read Moses. THere are billions and billions of worlds out there. Enough for everybody Some are lifeless some aren't. The closest star to us is 4 light years away. We can't travel nearly the speed of life yet, so it would take lifetimes to get to that star and its(if it even has one) planetary system. Assuming that one planet in that system is inhabited, why would we know about it when we have only begun to send rockets and probes out? (I think I remember hearing that one of our earlier probes had just passed Pluto, or was it Jupiter?)

answer to question 4: Again there are billions and billions of stars our there... enough for everybody....

answer to qustion 5: This one may be harder to fathom. (And this is only my guess) Mortality is a trial period, a set up, an imitation or reality(eternity). You come to earth learn a ton, experience a body, learn to used the body well, do good, learn to love, progress, progress, progress. You have a Savior who can (and does) exalt you, if youve live up to the requirements of recieving the Atonement. You return to real life(eternity). Now God saids, "Well done though good and faithful servant..." You now are exalted to Godhood. And because your in real life(eternity), you become a God from eternity to eternity... (again this is my own thoughts)

answer to question 5: It's been answered previously. Whomsoever has faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and follows His commandments may call himself a Christian.

answer to question 6: same as 5. Anyone who learns from the Master and follows Him is his disciple and can call himself a Christian. The only opinion that matters is Christ's. If He will call me a Christian, thats good enough for me.

[Moksha]

Here is another thought: Why not ask what an Orthodox Christian is? An Orthodox Christian you might say is one who follows the Creeds. And yet, what if all these Christian Sects define the meaning of the words within the Creeds differently. Would the not they have to share similar meanings for words such as One, Holy, Catholic/Universal, and Apostolic for them to truly be Orthodox?

Yet these Sects do have different meanings. So what is a ravening Christian who wants to sock it to the Mormons regarding their unorthodoxy to do? Or is it even necessary to do anything other than the ravening? Is there anyway they themself could assure that they are Standardized? Is there a brand label or seal that could be attached and if so, should Mormons first look for this label before they respond?

So many questions....