Do I believe the wrong things?

[PentiumInside]

3. That faith is more important than works. There is something a bit dodgy about believing that you don't have to do anything at all, except mumble a few words every now and then and your relationship with God is right. I don't think that's the true message.


LOL thats the part that started me looking at the church before I joined.

[JonboySquarepants]

to hear ignorant people sum christianity up as "believing that you don't have to do anything at all, except mumble a few words every now and then and your relationship with God is right" is just as annoying to me as when i hear ignorant christians saying that mormonism is a cult. true, born-again christians don't believe it is that simple and i read anthony's post that summed it up so well:

"I don't think anyone thinks mumbling a few words is enough, entry into the kingdom may be a free gift but walking with God is tough. If works were ever enough to earn entry into the kingdom then Jesus died for no reason, God could have just set the rules and expected us to follow them. However if you receive such a gift then don't set out to obey Jesus then you are mocking the gift he has given and how could anyone who has truly received such a gift treat it and the giver of the gift so flippantly."

[WillowTheWhisp]

I think that answers itself. Faith without works is dead, but so is works without faith. Both are important in a balanced setting. 'Mumbling a few words' would be like the vain repetitions of the heathens that we are told we should not emulate. Unfortunately I do know some people who think that so long as they do that they are fine and dandy. They sin on Saturday but confess on Sunday, say a few prayers and wipe the slate clean for a new start on Monday.

[PentiumInside]

Originally Posted by JonboySquarepants

to hear ignorant people sum christianity up as "believing that you don't have to do anything at all, except mumble a few words every now and then and your relationship with God is right" is just as annoying to me as when i hear ignorant christians saying that mormonism is a cult. true, born-again christians don't believe it is that simple and i read anthony's post that summed it up so well:

"I don't think anyone thinks mumbling a few words is enough, entry into the kingdom may be a free gift but walking with God is tough. If works were ever enough to earn entry into the kingdom then Jesus died for no reason, God could have just set the rules and expected us to follow them. However if you receive such a gift then don't set out to obey Jesus then you are mocking the gift he has given and how could anyone who has truly received such a gift treat it and the giver of the gift so flippantly."

entry into the kingdom may be a free gift but walking with God is tough

Sounds like a description of the Celestial and Telestial kingdoms by someone who doesn't know what they are lookin at to me

[NateHowe]

Wanderer,

Thanks for your updates on how things are going with your search. You may or may not have been introduced to it, but I think it might be helpful to review the promise of the Book of Mormon, found in Moroni, chapter 10, verses 3-5:

Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.


And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

To me, he seems to lay out these steps:

1. Read the Book of Mormon (or any other thing which purports to be true).
2. Ponder on it. This includes reasoning, meditation, asking questions, etc.
3. Receive it in your heart. This means that you have a desire to believe and a willingness to act on the truth if the book is true.
4. Pray with real intent. Again, this is active prayer, including a willingness to live by the answers you receive from God.
5. Listen for God to answer. It may not be a voice or a vision, but through the feelings of the Spirit of God, He will send an answer in a way you will recognize. This may be immediate, or it may take time and repeated prayer.

I hope that you will continue in this process and receive the answers that God wants you to know. It is a joyous journey.

[AnthonyB]

Originally Posted by WANDERER

I can understand how a failed Fundamentalist might not be the right person for discipline.

I basically grew up in a Fundamentalist Christian church that was regarded as a cult...I went to their school, I went to Church twice on Sunday, I went to homechurch on Wednesday, Youth church on Tuesday, Reachout on Friday and did fun activities with the youth on Saturday. I got accepted into a secular university with scholarship funding...because my sister was attending the church university and the costs were applying pressure on my family I accepted the place. My family was upset about this because they thought I would get into drugs and stuff. It became an issue and eventually I was asked to leave home if I would not make the right choice. I guess they also wanted me to work for the church. My church and friends turned away from me because they felt I had not honoured my parents. I hoped for reconciliation and that I could sort things out. So when the missionaries came to speak to me I just felt how was I not honouring my parents even further if I visited the Mormon church, because my church taught that if you did this you were rejecting Jesus. Kind of a ship without a rudder, faith as my captain but no wind in my sails as to what to do. I attended a similar fundamentalist Christian church but they strongly disagreed with the beliefs of my church and I felt very uncomfortable as they were suspicious of me.

Wanderer,

I think PC and NanaLDS did A failry good job in their posts.

I just wanted to add that I was not in way having or go at or questioning your level of discipline. Fundamentalism is often used as a pejorative and escpecially as a negative criticism for those who are more strict or narrow then the speaker. It originally grew out of the conflict between liberals and conservatives in the Christian church. The liberals were challenging the core beliefs, practices and morals of historic christianity, a group of conservatives got together and published a list that defined the fundatmental things they would not give way on. Mormons are not liberals in the modern sense of the word, they do have a set of beliefs, practices and morals which are central to their identity. You can be a member of some churches today whilst believing that God is no more real than the tooth fairy, that Jesus didn't really exist and as long you feel good about your actions then God will be happy about them. Liberalism is the opposite to fundamentalism and Mormons (IMHO) are not liberals, if your goal was to merely avoid fundamentalism then I could think that there are churches that are further from it then the LDS.

Of course no one should choose a faith just to avoid something. Faith comes from a revelation of who God is, and the best way to that is to seek God through prayerful reading of his word and asking the Father to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. (As others have probably said better.)

May I reiterate my prayer that the risen Jesus will meet you, as he has promised all that truly seek Him.

[AnthonyB]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I think that answers itself. Faith without works is dead, but so is works without faith. Both are important in a balanced setting. 'Mumbling a few words' would be like the vain repetitions of the heathens that we are told we should not emulate. Unfortunately I do know some people who think that so long as they do that they are fine and dandy. They sin on Saturday but confess on Sunday, say a few prayers and wipe the slate clean for a new start on Monday.

If you want to here a great critique of that mindset from an evanglelical song writer and you can ignore the slightly dated modern musical style, the Steve Taylor's "Sin for a Season" . Even though I believe he has given permission for his song to be freely copied, I shall not risk the wrath of the Moderator's so I'll paraphrase the words but it won't rhyme so well....

Gonna get the good Lord to forgive my sin,
And get a new clean slate, so I can dirty it once more,
But he reaps his harvest, his hear grows hard,
No one's going to make a mockery of God.

[pushka]

Wanderer, I've been following this thread since yesterday, and I commend you for using your own mind and searching the kind of religion that you want, rather than just going along with that of your family, just to keep the peace.

From your last post, it sounds like your family were not acting very Christian when they put your knapsack of clothing outside..

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by WANDERER

If someone told you that you could no longer be LDS because you didn't attend the LDS university what would you do? Would your entire church agree?

I should imagine it would be downright impossible for every LDS student to attend an LDS university. We certainly wouldn't be told we could no longer be part of the church. Education choices are left entirely up to each individual. The only thing the church does is encourage people to get an education.

It sounds as if the church you describe is afraid of young people learning from outside sources and discovering that they are more appealing. I've had people from other churches visit me and try to get me to read their literature, which I am more than happy to do but when I offer them a Book of Mormon they tell me they are not permitted to read anything not published by their own church.

[Shell72]

Originally Posted by WANDERER

I kind of moved away from fundamentalism because certain things made me very unhappy and I couldn't accept them.
Here they are:
1. That I wanted to pray to God the Father and honour him, not start with Dear Jesus for all of my prayers because this isn't what Jesus would have wanted.
2. That everyone who doesn't believe what I do is going to hell, irregardless, if they are not born again and saved...God has a plan that is bigger than that.
3. That faith is more important than works. There is something a bit dodgy about believing that you don't have to do anything at all, except mumble a few words every now and then and your relationship with God is right. I don't think that's the true message.

1: John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

2: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

3: Romans 10:9 - If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved