What is apostasy?

[PastorBob]

1. Timothy 4:1-6

1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3: Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6: If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

This is deeply symbolic, especially on the eating of meats.

Acts, 10:10-16

And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

These "meats" to be killed and eaten are the goyim (cattle in Hebrew) which Peter was avoiding as a Jew, but Jesus here commands him to bring the truth to them.

The conscience seared with a hot iron does not mean it is dead; a horse branded goes wild and begins to buck on contact. It is listening to it, when it tells a person to do evil, or to torture themselves for having not done enough; both end up sinning sooner or later from the pain it is causing.

Verses 4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6: If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

To understand these verses we must go back to Genesis and look at the first "unclean beast" the serpent, which crawled on its belly.

Leviticus 11:41-45:

And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten. Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

Normally, these are unclean, but when they are sanctified with prayer they are clean.

They were referring to the people who would be, and as is clearly outlined in the old testament, they would not mix with anyone who was not also Jewish.

The apostasy, may be taken to be a falling away from this, and descent into uncontrolled acts, not sanctified through prayer, which give birth to abominations.

It is more of an individual happening, and not en masse, albeit for this act, much like the establishment of truth, two must be involved, a speaker, and a listener.

Forbidding to marry may be taken to be the sin of Onan as well, and this is commonly practiced today in modern society, though with different methods than was done in those days. In 1st Timothy, we read "seducing spirits." Genesis 38:9: And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10: And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

[Maxel]

jasper-

I appreciate your honest intentions. However, I cannot engage in dialogue with you anymore for a number of reasons.

1) You assume prophetic authority for interpreting scripture based on the fact you have been saved through Christ. We assume others are given prophetic authority, through God's grace, and have interpreted the scriptures differently than you. You have taken the privilege upon yourself. You have not been given the mantle of the prophet, but have attempted to craft one of your own power based on spurious reasoning.

2) Anything that might throw a shadow of doubt on your stalwart and narrow-minded position you dub as 'irrelevant' or 'misinterpretation of scripture'. The Biblical canon and nature of scripture is not 'irrelevant' to your question. However, you have your own conclusions: your sole purpose is to declare our belief about the apostasy, and by correlation our belief in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as false. Often, you claim such things are 'irrelevant' and invite them to be discussed on another thread- as if you started this one. Must I remind you that you did not start this thread- or that the stated point of this thread was not to find a Bible verse supporting the Apostasy?

3) You assume we have not been saved through Christ. This is painfully obvious as you assume authority for yourself because you live the Gospel, yet you claim we are in the wrong. Your condescension is scalding, and made worse by the fact you have nothing to go on but your own opinions- opinions that include you being able to make correct interpretations of scripture based on belief in its teachings.

4) Your constant non-sequitor reasoning makes my head spin. Of course not every event in history is recorded. Of course the apostasy is not spelled out as 'After Christ dies, an apostasy will occur' in the Bible. Of course anything not specifically stated in the Bible didn't happen or is untrue or bad doctrine.

Wait.. what?

THAT's how your arguments go.

5) All you do is dismiss and deflect the values and theology I hold sacred. You take some peculiar delight in trampling the pearls you've gotten a hold of.

6) Your reasoning is based on different foundations that you bounce back and forth between. Your foundation is one of sand and not unified.

----------------------

The next moderator who reads this- I hope you can see the circular path this discussion has taken, and will take forevermore, and choose to take correct action.

[darrel]

Thank you Maxel.

You stated my point exactly. Authority is the foundation of all interpretation of scripture. Having a Living Prophet is the key to understanding scripture and avoiding the many interpretations and confusion existing in the world.

However well intentioned, our friend follows the pattern of sidestepping true doctrine by using tactics well rehersed by the adversary. Satan uses just enough scripture to sound reasonable and then subtly leads away from truth.

[pam]

Originally Posted by jasper_21

i don't think it insult you. "did i say that you are a false christian?"

You didn't have to. That was an insult out right. You inferred that we are not true Christians by that statement.

[pam]

Thread is now closed.