Rational Christianity

[orrinjelo]

I was using my Stumble! in StumbleUpon, and came across this site:

Rational Christianity

It's not often that I come across something like this that really draws my attention. The overall message it gives is that Christian youth all over the country are falling away because they can't stand up to the "rational" arguments of those who do not believe in God--and we must help these youth construct a sort-of rational basis in order to defend their faith.
Also in the Church, we see several of our young adults going inactive about this time because of different reasons--either they don't feel the support of friends and colleges or they haven't received a strong enough witness of God, Christ, the Church, etc.
Now, I don't think just arming our youth with some "rational thought" will help them in the least. They need that spiritual experience to give them a strong enough testimony, and then that will construct the rationality of it all. No, it may not sound rational, but -I KNOW.- I felt His Spirit. He told me the scriptures are true. He IS there. I know it.
We're not the only people that can get these revelations. You have to admit, there is something significant between the person that believes in God and knows there is a God, and one that doesn't believe.

Anyway, look the site over, what do you think?

[a-train]

Although I think the spirit of this site is great and it has something to offer, it is not a new phenomenon that youngsters fall away from the teachings given them from their parents. It is actually necessary that they question God and try all spirits.

I love the fact that this site has an article bashing the ill-advised practice of 'legislating morality'. The article on the over-commitment to the Bible has at least a good spirit to it, although I think the mark is somewhat missed. The real trouble there is the fact that philosophies of men are created and put forth as the definitions for scriptural principles and teachings. When these philosophies are shown to be faulty, the scriptures are thus considered to be faulty also.

The real issue facing many individuals is social acceptance. In a society that ridicules faith in God, many stumble. 'Rational' arguments are really just packaging designed to make the subject 'cool' again. This tactic is not only lacking integrity and purpose, but it most often backfires. Although many churches make their services fun and cool with a rock band and a flashy stage presence, the lasting effects on the audience is virtually null.

There is a competition for cool that is unceasingly pushed on us all. Everybody is looking for our adoration. A dialogue opens between Christian and Atheist and bystanders sit looking to see who can zing their opponent the best and come off the smoothest.

If we look at those instances wherein the LORD was pressed to enter this debate we do not see Him winning the multitudes with a suave coolness. Perhaps many went away thinking he lost the debate. Certainly enough thought He was worthy of crucifixion.

If our current political process is any indication at all, it is proof that honesty, integrity, and good sense is unpopular. What we all need is a true understanding of God, our relationship to Him, and to our fellow man. With that, we no longer worry about the social status or the rationale of our faith.

-a-train

My son is 12 and every week he comes with something or other that "the teacher says." I am lucky, I guess, that he thinks I am way smarter than the teacher. but beyond that I stick to grandma's dictum "Believe nothing you hear, half of what you see and only some of what is discussed. As soon as they stop talking go yourself and find out...and don't come back until you do."

They need to learn to take nothing at face value regardless of where it comes from.

[Arosophos]

Church leaders, and particularly Joseph Smith, have taught that knowledge and reason, as well as science, are complements to inspiration and faith. If we don't use these tools, provided by God, we're foolish. Our children do need to be trained, both spiritually and rationally, for the challenges of life. We do them a disservice otherwise.

[Traveler]

What is it that makes youth strong? I think that sometimes parents want to protect children to the point that children do not have the chance to develop spiritual survival skills. Sometimes it is little things. I know of youth that even for their mission farewell, their mothers wrote the talk. Many parents are afraid of their children failing. I think this is one of the reasons that many youth are prescribed Riddlin.

I believe another problem is the “us against them” attitude instilled in many minority youth. Instead of teaching children how to seek truth, enlightenment and noble character we tend to embattle them against the world. I also wonder about parents that have children and forget how to love the children’s other parent. Just one note concerning this problem of loving your spouse – you are incapable of true and lasting love if you cannot sustain your love through difficulty.

We will always lose a few, as regrettable as that sounds. It is not always the fault of how they were taught. But when a few turns into most; then we must realize there is something wrong with the lesson and the example.

The Traveler

[cgrantreed]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I believe another problem is the “us against them” attitude instilled in many minority youth. Instead of teaching children how to seek truth, enlightenment and noble character we tend to embattle them against the world. I also wonder about parents that have children and forget how to love the children’s other parent. Just one note concerning this problem of loving your spouse – you are incapable of true and lasting love if you cannot sustain your love through difficulty. [/font][/size]

I can't tell you how HARD that hit the wall for me. I'm going through an UGLY divorce and that is the exact basis of my troubles. Its a battle for our kids as to what they choose to fight for and when we turn them into drones for the cause they fail to actually get the tools to survive against the adversary. My wife focused so hard on the kids "welfare" even though it meant hovering and molly coddling them to death that she failed to teach them the skills required to KNOW what God wants for them in their lives. I tried to teach the important stuff but most of the time I was deflected by my wife. Our marriage failed because when the times got tough... mom blamed dad instead of putting it in Gods hands. What did the kids learn for this example? Beats me. They can't tell me because they are not sure what the original point was.

Teach your kids to seek truth and enlightenment. Teach them the importance of character and honor. Teach them to have open minds and test EVERYTHING. Nothing is doctrine until its been tried and proven by God. Otherwise its here-say and prone to deception. I have always said that there is ONLY ONE FLAVOR OF TRUTH.

[VoluntaryPrison]

My son is 12 and every week he comes with something or other that "the teacher says."

This is a frightening thing to me. I see it in many forms including "My Young Men's/Young Women's Leader said" to "My seminary Teacher said" to "My EFY Councilor said" and even what may be most frightening, "My Mission President said." The thing that frightens me about these phrases is that it puts the authority of what follows on some person that I likely don't know and have no idea if I should trust. It also fails to help the person receiving the message know where the doctrine comes from.

Sadly, I'm fully guilty of this as well. I have yet to quote a source on these boards, so I guess I'll commit myself to do better. What we all need to do better is when we teach, cite the source of the doctrine. If we learned something from our EFY councilor, we should find the scriptures and talks that back it up. Then, if we want to make the point in the future, we cite the scriptures and not the councilor.

So when your kids comes home and says, "my teacher says," challenge him and say, do you know where in the scriptures it teaches that, etc...help him find the answers there, and that will have a much more lasting impact on his long term spiritual growth.

As a tangent, I knew a guy who worked at EFY for a little bit. His last piece of advice to his youth before the end of the week was, "You should never start a sentence with the words, my EFY councilor said...' unless it's the sentence, my EFY councilor said I should never start a sentence with the words my EFY councilor said."

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by cgrantreed

I can't tell you how HARD that hit the wall for me. I'm going through an UGLY divorce and that is the exact basis of my troubles. Its a battle for our kids as to what they choose to fight for and when we turn them into drones for the cause they fail to actually get the tools to survive against the adversary. My wife focused so hard on the kids "welfare" even though it meant hovering and molly coddling them to death that she failed to teach them the skills required to KNOW what God wants for them in their lives. I tried to teach the important stuff but most of the time I was deflected by my wife. Our marriage failed because when the times got tough... mom blamed dad instead of putting it in Gods hands. What did the kids learn for this example? Beats me. They can't tell me because they are not sure what the original point was.

Teach your kids to seek truth and enlightenment. Teach them the importance of character and honor. Teach them to have open minds and test EVERYTHING. Nothing is doctrine until its been tried and proven by God. Otherwise its here-say and prone to deception. I have always said that there is ONLY ONE FLAVOR OF TRUTH.

I am very sorry you are going through an ugly divorce. Please understand I do not intend to give advice because I have no idea what is happening. However, the main point still remains and is even more important. Despite the difficulty there is nothing to be gained - only lost by allowing your love to be turned to anger against their mother.

The Traveler

[ztodd]

Originally Posted by VoluntaryPrison

This is a frightening thing to me. I see it in many forms including "My Young Men's/Young Women's Leader said" to "My seminary Teacher said" to "My EFY Councilor said" and even what may be most frightening, "My Mission President said." The thing that frightens me about these phrases is that it puts the authority of what follows on some person that I likely don't know and have no idea if I should trust. It also fails to help the person receiving the message know where the doctrine comes from.

Sadly, I'm fully guilty of this as well. I have yet to quote a source on these boards, so I guess I'll commit myself to do better. What we all need to do better is when we teach, cite the source of the doctrine. If we learned something from our EFY councilor, we should find the scriptures and talks that back it up. Then, if we want to make the point in the future, we cite the scriptures and not the councilor.

So when your kids comes home and says, "my teacher says," challenge him and say, do you know where in the scriptures it teaches that, etc...help him find the answers there, and that will have a much more lasting impact on his long term spiritual growth.

As a tangent, I knew a guy who worked at EFY for a little bit. His last piece of advice to his youth before the end of the week was, "You should never start a sentence with the words, my EFY councilor said...' unless it's the sentence, my EFY councilor said I should never start a sentence with the words my EFY councilor said."

All sorts of people have influence in our lives. You can't avoid having others influence you.. the truth is, we wouldn't have any ideas of our own if it weren't for the influence of others. The scriptures themselves were written by prophets who also happened to be human and have weaknesses despite the fact that they were led by God. Don't get me wrong, I know there's a difference in the level of confidence you can have in scripture vs. your teacher at school.

I think I see what point you're making, but technically I don't think it's wrong to repeat something you heard your EFY councilor or your mission president or you teacher said- not if it's something that made an impression on you and you believe it and can defend it. Even if it's not, what's wrong with bringing up something you heard someone say once, as long as you don't just take it for truth automatically but just bring it up as a point of discussion or to make a point.

[VoluntaryPrison]

Because bringing up 'something somebody once said' is how we get things like, "the youth were generals in the war in heaven." Passing on such hearsay tends to catalyze the growth of false doctrine (like the three year old trapped by a garage door who had a vision to 'free the birdies'). You teach doctrine from the scriptures.